Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: cincinnati65
From a theological standpoint, the soul is produced when the seed of man is joined with the woman, and a child is formed. This is the mechanism for passing on the sin nature of Adam, and why Jesus Christ had to be born of a virgin and not be of the seed of Adam.

To break that chain, then one allegedly is breaking the "sins of the father" mechanism, and similarly is breaking the chain of inherited salvation. (see Romans 5)

It would seem wrong for God to honor man's attempts to subvert YHWH by creating their own savior (one who does not inherit the sin nature) by installing a haploid soul, does it?

If you want to get real wild about speculation regarding clones, I submit that the Nephilim of Genesis 6 were clones. They have the common trait of clones (giganticism) and an empty shell does provide the idillic host for demon posession, since there is no fear of the Paraclete invading the soul and cleaning house, so to speak. The "bene elohiym" of 6:4, can be translated "sons of gods" (notice little 'g' gods). If the antediluvian scientists played "God" and practiced their own eugenics through cloning, then the product would indeed be their "sons", and in theological terms, their "men of great name", would mean that they were subjected to the authority and dominion of their god-like creators. (do a study on the topic of "naming")

What a great way to eliminate this population of clones than through a thoroughal global deluge? And to prevent man from quickly restarting their cloning efforts in Babel, to confuse them. (BTW, Nebechadnezzar did indeed rebuild the "Tower that reached unto heaven", so say the historians and honest archaeologists)

So now we are cloning again... allegedly.
And what did Solomon say ? "There is nothing new under the sun"
And what did Jesus Christ say? "As in the days of Noah..."


32 posted on 01/01/2003 10:07:22 PM PST by Dr Warmoose
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: Dr Warmoose
You touch closer upon the major issues involved,..good post.

Here's a few of the issues I've found.

1) Background, ..God forms man, makes the soul and creates the spirit.

We might take as an assumption that the body aspect is being dublicated or counterfeited or manipulated in cloning. Independent of soul or spirit issues, first issue may be to quantify and qualify the actual cloning or repoduction of the body. Even if the DNA is perfectly rproduced or cloned, have we actually reproduced the body or merely a close proximity or apparent reproduction? Science might not have the wherewithal to actually prove this point, so some logical doubt might remaon,...an identification problem, if you will. This also touches upon the scope of science, perception, identification, and domain of the physical.

2) The claim is made that the human is cloned,...let's know clarify this to mean the human body,...as the claim.

Does this imply the soul or spirit will also be human?
Substantial theological doctrines have been made regarding soul and spirit, but generally, the soul and spirit of man are associated with personhood and distinct identities. Most doctrines I've found, tend to reason to more advanced doctrine within stipulative definition systems based upon Scripture, but diverge on a number of points.

Dicotomous vs Tricotomous
Some assert the soul and spirit are referencing the same object, essentially a nonmaterial essence of man in a dicotomous view. Others take from creation verses, the discernment of body, soul and spirit or tricotomous view.

Salvation and the Scriptural discussions of indwelling definitely associate the Holy Spirit with the spirit of man and the natural or cosmic man is understood to be dead in spiritual things (dead as in separated from God).

The soul is frequently associate with the mind, with conscience, with thought, with memory, with personage, with decision making, with ideas, to list but a few.

The Greek word PNEUMA is also translated in some cases as spirit and in others as soul, or breath of life. Accordingly some doctrines of soul, indicate that all animals have soul, but only man has been given spirit from God. Other secular discussions on spirit, associate spirit with animals as a life breathed feature.

2a) Variations on a theme.
Some doctrines hold, the body is first formed in post Adamic man by conception. We might say present day science materially deals in detail with this perspective of the body. Some posit the soul begins with conception, some pre-conception, some assert the soul is made sometime during first to second trimester.

The spirit has also been associated with pre-conception, conception, and upon childbirth or separation from the womb, and also possibly with an age of accountability only known by God.

In both issues, a number of doctrines emerge, generally focused on soul associated with brain development in the body, and spirit, seperately created by God after birth.

An important issue occurs here. Much of Scripture approaches the entire subject, not from the point of view of when soul and spirit are created or identified with persons, but rather with emphasis on how the Holy Spirit is related to man's spirit after faith and belief. This entire approach is probably no better stated than simply studying Scripture itself.

IMHO, this note might shed more light on the entire issue than semantics. It simply might not matter with respect to our relationship to God about these issues. But it might be very discernible to study these issues, because they are likely to be used by the Adversary in his attempt to counterfeit God's plan and we might be inadvertantly damaged by the conflict. Additionally, these isues might be massive stumbling blocks for natural man from coming to place faith in God.

2b) issues of soul made in the womb and spirit created upon separation of the body from the womb. This point of view nicely resolves many issues regarding abortion. Abortion might still be opposed, on the basis that one should not condone the taking of life withut regard, just as one shouldn't slaughter animals in reckless abandon, but it might well better frame an issue with regards to murder.

Interestingly, this doctrinal position might shed much more light upon partial birth abortion. Ulterior reasons to advance partial birth abortions might lie much more critically upon the timing and assignment of soul and spirit than even researchers might intuit. The procedure might be encouraged by Adversarial deception.

WRT cloning, the issues made regarding human chain of sin nature and upon salvation are critically important surrounding soul and spirit.

It might be the case that body, soul, and spirit are intrinsically linked such that cloning simply reproduces man and all ddoctrinal issues are moot. In such a case, the only real concerns would be natural man seeking immortality via the body and disregarding the Holy Spirit. If so, then they would also perish in a destruction of earth by fire.

The association with UFOs, fallen angels, and plans counterfeit to Scripture, though, indicates the entire issue is soehow very important in the Adversary's counterfeit plan.

The Nephilim, I would more associate with hybrid bodily issues as opposed to soul, spirit issues. But their study seems also appropriate in discernment of the cloning issue.
40 posted on 01/02/2003 12:48:45 AM PST by Cvengr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson