Replies

No George, I never said anything about salvation. In fact in my first post on this thread, here, I said it doesn't save. From what little I know of you , I know that you know it's primarily a step in obedience, but it is also a participation in the dying with Christ and the resurrection of Christ. There are several baptisms and there is indeed a baptism in suffering. It does not take the place of the water baptism, but it can be an identification with Christ's sufferings and it is meant for disciples. When the thief believed, he was saved. The baptism of suffering was a gift to him.

There are several baptisms and there is indeed a baptism in suffering.

No, there is one baptism, believer's baptism. It is administered by believers to a new believer as an act of obedience. It does not and cannot determine salvation or accomplish any other spiritual purpose.

This is not to say that God may not use that moment of baptism to give a particular blessing to an individual believer. But that is not necessarily expected nor is its presence or absense any commentary on the spirituality of the baptized person.

Given your varous baptisms and recalling that baptism is denoted in the NT by "baptizo" a Greek work which means only to submerge underwater, then how are we to parse this "baptism of suffering" you're pursuing? Is it a "submerged-under-water-suffering" or something?

I think you're hinting here at the practices of charismatics/personal-holiness types of churches which believe in a second gift of the Holy Spirit and other such things. These beliefs are modern beliefs and not found anywhere in the Bible or in the ancient churches.