No need to reconcile anything, only to inform you of your mistakes. The Journal of Discourses is not scripture, revelation or doctrine. For anyone interested, the Journal of Discourses (26 volume set) is available on the New Mormon Studies CD-ROM.
Making the claim that the Journal of Discourses is not doctrine doesn't mean it isn't Mormon doctrine. Brigham Young said: "I say now, when they are copied and approved by me they are as good as Sripture, as is couched in the Bible..." Journal of Discourses, VOL 13 p. 264.
You may be told the Journal of Discourses isn't doctrine, but Brigham Young's own words directly contradict what you said. Was Brigham Young wrong? Even a Mormon web site calls the Journal of Discourses doctrine with additional quotes from Brigham Young, Joseph Smith and others. Note the web source.
The following books list the Journal of Discourses as an official publication of the Mormon Church:
- Essentials in Church History, by Joseph F, Smith, LDS Church p. 674
- Desert News 1989-90 Church Almanac p. 188.
Even if the record is accurate however, it is still the case the the speakers were speaking for themselves and their words do not represent anything other than their own opinions.
We're not just talking about anybody, we're talking about Joseph Smith (Founder of the Mormon church), Brigham Young (the second president and prophet of the Mormon church) and Orson Pratt, who was a Mormon apostle and has an observatory named after him at BYU. That's three leaders of the Mormon church including the founder referring to the Journal of Discourses as Mormon doctrine.
Did you know Mormon doctrine has changed over the years? This site documents some Mormon doctrine that's been altered.
the Bible itself shows that even prophets can be wrong at times.
Where does the Bible show that prophets can be wrong? I can show you what the Bible says of false prophets:
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death." You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
If a prophet is wrong they're not a prophet of God. Matthew 24 warns us of false prophets. So where in the Bible does it say prophets can be wrong? How do you know when a prophet is wrong?
"Making the claim that the Journal of Discourses is not doctrine doesn't mean it isn't Mormon doctrine"
It isn't a claim, it's a fact. There is a process by which doctrine accepted into the cannon, and the JoD NEVER ever bagan to go though it.
"Brigham Young said: "I say now, when they are copied and approved by me they are as good as Sripture,...Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve."
And if you read what I posted before better, you would see that he NEVER reviewed and verfied the content of the JoD, you can not use that quote to claim the JoD is accurate, the JoD doesn't meet the conditions BY listed.
"Even a Mormon web site calls the Journal of Discourses doctrine with additional quotes from Brigham Young, Joseph Smith and others. Note the web source"
Unofficial web sites do not set doctrine either, and no quotation from any memeber, no matter how glowing in it's praise, establishes it as doctrine. There are many wonderfull truths in the JoD, but it is not scripture, it is not doctrine, and nothing you have posted establishes that it is.
"We're not just talking about anybody, we're talking about Joseph Smith (Founder of the Mormon church), Brigham Young (the second president and prophet of the Mormon church) and Orson Pratt, who was a Mormon apostle and has an observatory named after him at BYU."
And that doesn't matter one bit. Prophets are not meat puppets of God, they are free to form and voice their own opinons on things that have not been revealed, and those opinons are no less fallible than those of any other man. You might carry some superstious belief that prophets never make mistakes or something, but we don't. Any member is free to disagree with their opinions without consequence, it is when they reject the revelations of God that come through them that they risk excommunication.
"That's three leaders of the Mormon church including the founder referring to the Journal of Discourses as Mormon doctrine. "
I don't see any quote where they call it doctrine. I see it called interesting, gratifying, beneficial, profitable, etc. etc. but not doctrine. About as close as you can come is the quotes that indicate doctrines are discussed or contained in the JoD, but the same thing can be said of this very thread, and it surely is NOT scripture.
What is and is not doctrine is very well defined. Nothing becomes doctrine without the unanimous consent of the the entire Frist Presidency AND the entire Quorum of the Twelve, after that the doctrine would be presented to the general body of the church. This was never done with the JoD, the JoD is by definition, not scripture, not part of our cannon, not doctrine. It is a fact.
"Did you know Mormon doctrine has changed over the years? "
No doctrine has been changed, dishonest people only try to make it look so by confusing the practice of a doctrine with the doctrine itself. I only have time for 'in a nutshell' relies right now. It was fortold at least as far back as BY that at some time the priesthood would be given to all worthy men, and what we did was no more a change in doctrine than it was when the gospel was finaly allowed to go to the Gentiles. As for plural marriage, the doctrine is that a person can only take a plural wife with God's approval. A man who takes a plural wife without God's approval is sinning, just as one who was commanded to take a plural wife and refuses. God has withdrawn his consent and so by not taking plural wives, we are living in harmony with the unchanged doctrine.
Again you seem to show that you have never looked at more than one side before making up your mind. If you want to be fair and look at both sides the information is out there at places like:
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ and
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml and other sites.
"Where does the Bible show that prophets can be wrong?"
Jonah comes to mind. Jonah 2: 3-4 "So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days journey. And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." It didn't happen, and on top of that, Jonah was rather ticked off that God would forgive them. All this of course AFTER he tries to run away from his calling. Then you have Peter denying Christ (3 times!), Judas betraying Christ for money, Eli turned a blind eye to the evil his sons did etc. etc. Does any of this strike you as being right?
"But a prophet who presumes to speak IN MY NAME anything I have not commanded him to say..."
And what YOU are doing over and over is taking things that they said when they were NOT speaking in God's name and treating them as is they were speaking in God's name.
Peter James and John most likely believed the world was flat like everyone else. So what, it wasn't christian doctrine that the world was flat untill long after they died. Men with no revelation and using their personal understanding of the Bible as a guide, rather mistreated some people who belived otherwise.
"If a prophet is wrong they're not a prophet of God."
Prophets are not perfect. The very verse you try to use against us says that it is only when they speak in the name of the LORD that he is speaking as a prophet. Outside of that he can be as wrong as anyone.