Replies

"You provided this link which didn't discuss Rev 22:13 at all and just gave some examples which have no bearing on Rev 22:13. "

I didn't claim it did, I though since you imply comparison with 1st century christians is a usefull exercise that you might find that information interesting.

"Of course it matters what Jesus' words meant to first century Christians!"

I'm sure it matters to first century Christians, but to me they are still imperfect men, and I will not be goverened by the opinons of men in spritual things. What is important to me is understaning it as God does, and if that seems 'incredibly funny' to you then it would problaby be best to just agree to disagree at this point.

'you're not being given real answers to very important issues'

From my POV you are missing the forest for the trees and I'm trying to point out the forest to you. When you can see the forest, then it makes scense to talk about the trees.

"That's another standard Mormon line."

Yes, it is. It's also a line many of you like to brush aside and ignore because you can not deal with the truth of it.

"Otherwise you're setting yourself up to fall for any teaching whatsoever"

You really don't know much about us, I wish you could see that for yourself. God wants us to know the truth, he promised to reveal the truth of things to us if we ask in faith and sincerity. I've done so and I know personaly from God that these things are true. I am not blindly following some teacher, I am relying on God.

From my POV, it is YOU who are relying on some human teacher, or your own intellect, to guide you. Man's understanding is not sufficient, and heaven is not just for those with the intelligence to corectly sort out truth from error on their own. Heaven is for anyone with faith sufficient to ask God and follow his answers.

Sorry for the delay in the reply, Tues night we went to see The Two Towers at midnight, then I came home, got 3 hours sleep and had a very busy day yesterday before going to bed rather early.

I'm jealous! I just bought the DVD for The Fellowship of the Ring and watched it for the first time last week. I'm scheduled to watch The Two Towers Saturday night.

I don't have time to respond today and maybe not until Saturday.

Regarding the Alpha and the Omega, what it meant to first century and previous Jews, and how it refers to Jesus.

Revelation 1:4 says:

To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come...

Verse 8 continues with:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Who is speaking here?

We see here the Alpha and the Omega is also He who is, who was and who is to come. The Alpha and the Omega are the first and the last, respectively, and this in reference to the Greek alphabet.

Isaiah (41:4) refers to God as the first and the last:

Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD -with the first of them and with the last-I am he.

As does Judaism in Josephus and Philo. Some Jewish teachers came to call God the 'Aleph and the Tav, the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet.

Revelation 21:6 says:

He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

Who is speaking here?

Verses 12-13 continue with:

Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Who is coming soon? Who is the Alpha and the Omega, First and Last, the Beginning and the End?

Verse 16 continues with:

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.

Hmm. "I, Jesus..."

Verse 20 continues with:

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

The Bible refers to both God and Jesus as the Alpha and Omega, the First and Last and the Beginning and the End. And now we know what the Alpha and the Omega meant to the audience of the time.