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To: Maximilian
These demonstrated cumulatively, in both scholarly and popular fashion, that the Second Vatican Council was early commandeered and manipulated and infected by modernist, liberalist, and protestantizing persons and ideas.

This is where I go bonkers. Does this mean that they (SSPX & Fr. Somerville) believe that Vatican II was abandoned by the Holy Spirit and therefore is null and void? Where exactly does this thinking leave us?

8 posted on 11/29/2002 7:07:12 PM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
Look, you are not correct on this matter of the Holy Spirit. The Church has always taught that divine protection against error only occurs at a council when a solemn dogma is being declared. Vatican II declared no new dogmas, therefore there can be no assurance of divine protection for any of its statements. Many on this site--yourself included--have this loony idea that everything issued by the Council is binding on the faithful, as though God Himself had spoken. This is patent nonsense. Pastoral decrees can be full of mistaken ideas and even liberal foolishness--as Vatican II undoubtedly was.
11 posted on 11/29/2002 7:37:32 PM PST by ultima ratio
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To: american colleen
"Where exactly does this thinking leave us?"

It appears to be another step into the unofficial schism territory. Perhaps this will help in restoring the Latin Mass to the mainstream of the Latin Rite. I would love to see it expanded from the token category.
35 posted on 11/30/2002 7:23:17 AM PST by Domestic Church
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To: american colleen
This is where I go bonkers. Does this mean that they (SSPX & Fr. Somerville) believe that Vatican II was abandoned by the Holy Spirit and therefore is null and void? Where exactly does this thinking leave us?

Where does that leave us??? It leaves us exactly where we have been for 2,000 years, before the radicals (some of whom we now see are repentant) decided to pull the rug out from under the Faith.

You mean to tell me you honestly cannot imagine life outside Vatican II? You are so alienated from your 2,000 year faith that without Vatican II you would not feel Roman Catholic? That in itself speaks VOLUMES about the REAL destruction of Vatican II -- the way it has pulled people from the 2,000 year old faith and into a new religion. Amazing!

47 posted on 11/30/2002 10:34:37 AM PST by Zviadist
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To: american colleen
Does this mean that they (SSPX & Fr. Somerville) believe that Vatican II was abandoned by the Holy Spirit and therefore is null and void? Where exactly does this thinking leave us?

The Holy Spirit doesn't guide every action of the Church, whether in an ecumenical council or otherwise. The Holy Spirit only protects the doctrine of the Faith from corruption. So far, all the events that have occurred during Vatican II and afterwards were proposed as "prudential judgments." There have been no infallible declarations. The current pope likes to publish "speculations." None of these are binding on the faithful.

The results of these "prudential judgements" have been disastrous, indicating that they were not nearly so "prudent" as their instigators would have us believe. And many people, like Fr. Somerville, after witnessing the devastation caused by these innovations, are going back and investigating the causes of our current situation. This does not mean that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church. But it does mean that shepherds with the duty to protect the Faith and guard the faithful have utterly failed at their assigned duties.

54 posted on 11/30/2002 2:11:32 PM PST by Maximilian
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