[RobbyS]

Man, you have lost your nerve. Did the fact that Alexander VI was pope never register with you? Or the fact that Francis Borgia was a saint. Consider what such men as Phillip Neri and Ignatius Loyola had to contend with because they were able to turn the papacy away from the sink of desolation that it seemed to be falling into. Stop ranting about the disappearance of the Church you thought you knew and face up to the reality. The barque of Peter is tossing on stormy seas and here you are raving at the pilot.

[ultima ratio]

Not at all. You have a strange way of arguing. First you deny things are abnormal. When I point out they are, you tell me to lighten up. But I was making a point. Lefebvre was using the present crisis as a reason for disobedience. He saw Rome desired to destroy Tradition and would not play along. For this he was punished severely. What do you suppose these threads have been about, if not whether the charge of schism was justified? I have been trying to show it was not--and to do this I must make the case.

It is also to illustrate what the cause of the crisis is. If we can't--or won't--name it, we can't possibly resolve it. Example: the bishops won't come to terms with the gay subculture. But they won't stop the scandals until they do? You, however, would tell them instead to lighten up, the barque of Peter is being tossed, the waves will be calmed eventually in the future. This is hooey. We have got to reform and eliminate corruption--which means naming our problems and desisting in destroying the foundations of our faith.