An Open Letter to the Church Renouncing My Service on I.C.E.L.

Communicantes (Newsletter of the Society of St. Pius X in Canada) ^ | October 2002 | Rev. Fr. Stephen Somerville

[sitetest]

Dear ultima,

When the Church uses the word, it uses it in the sense of "easily taught".

A real traditional Catholic would know that.

Nighty-night.


I'll pray for you in the morning.

;-)


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

"You are becoming a site pest."

Oh, yes, we neo-Catholics are so mean, and all we do is call folks names, unlike the saintly ultima ratio and his cohort.

LOL.

"I haven't bothered to read this long screed because I stopped with the insult in the first few sentences."

Or perhaps because the arrow finds its mark.

"You claim you don't judge souls, then proceed to judge mine--again."

Gee, I thought you didn't read my long screed, how would you know??

;-)

"Try getting rid of the log in your own eye before complaining about the splinter in mine."

I'm workin' on it as hard as I can. Part of my penance is engaging schismatics at FR.

"This is pure pharisaism--you ooze unctiousnesss without realizing it."

Maybe I can bottle it and sell it.

"I suspect the Novus Ordo does that to people--makes them quite smug about themselves--which is what self-worship does to people."

ROTFLMAO. I gotta tellya, ultima, I still think you should quit your day job and go on the comedy circuit.

"You badly need the old Mass and a kick in the rear-end besides."

Perhaps my wife was right about your potential propensity for violence.

Listen, ultima, thanks for helping make this thread such a great refutation of everything schismatics stand for. It couldn't have done it without you!


sitetest

[ultima ratio]

A pet poodle is easily taught. Human beings need cogent reasons to believe in what they are told. Even popes are obliged to explain and appeal to the minds of the faithful. Slaves don't, of course, need reasons. --They just obey, blindly, for fear of the master's whip.

[drstevej]

***A pet poodle is easily taught. ***

Have you ever had a poodle? I think they are part cat. :0)

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

"A pet poodle is easily taught. Human beings need cogent reasons to believe in what they are told. Even popes are obliged to explain and appeal to the minds of the faithful. Slaves don't, of course, need reasons. --They just obey, blindly, for fear of the master's whip."

Yes, yes, we "neo-Catholics" just keep it up with the insults. Ultima and his friends would never think to, say, compare us to dogs.

LOL.

You just keep talkin', ultima. You just keep providing more and more evidence of how your mindset has become Protestant.

"As I pointed out before, docility is generally confused with subservience. (We tend to forget that ihe word 'docile' is derived from the Latin root which means to teach or be taught.) A person is wrongly thought to be docile if he is passive and pliable. On the contrary, docility is the extremely active virtue of being teachable. No one is really teachable who does not freely exercise his power of independent judgment. The most docile reader is, therefore, the most critical. He is the reader who finally responds to a book by the greatest effort to make up his own mind on the matters the author has discussed.

"I say 'finally' because docility requires that a teacher be fully heard and, more than that, understood, before he is judged. I should add also that sheer amount of effort is not an adequate criterion of docility. The reader must know how to judge a book, just as he must know how to arrive at an understanding of its contents."

- Morton Adler, "HOW TO READ A BOOK: A Guide to Reading the Great Books"

Real Catholics are docile, ultima. With the free exercise of our power of judgement, we willingly submit to the teaching authority of Christ's Church. Not blindly, but with eyes open. Not out of fear, but out of love, grateful for the Pearl of Great Price that we have found.

It's sad that you don't seem to understand this.


sitetest

[drstevej]

***Morton Adler, "HOW TO READ A BOOK: A Guide to Reading the Great Books"***

An outstanding book, highly recommended. Dr. Howard Hendricks at Dallas Seminary required this as reading for his Bible Study Methods course.

[sitetest]

Dear drstevej,

You know that Dr. Adler was received into the Catholic Church a few years before his death.

;-)


sitetest

[ultima ratio]

First, I never claimed to be a saint or even saintly. I don't tell people whom I dislike intensely that I will pray for them, as you do routinely, in between your wishing I'd go straight to Hell where you think I belong.

I didn't read it your post, I saw the length and said no thanks after the first few poisonous scratchings. As for representation of any group, schismatic or otherwise--you and Catholicguy take the cake for vitriol. You are both without equals in spite and malice on this site.

Have a nice night--I will pray for you; I will make a novena for you; I will make a pilgrimage to Lourdes on my hands and knees for you. I mean this with about the same degree of sincerity as you intend when you purport to pray for me.

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

"...in between your wishing I'd go straight to Hell where you think I belong."

Wow. Now you can read my mind. That's impressive.

Though you need some practice. I wish, I hope with all my heart that no one goes to Hell, straight or otherwise. Regrettably, it's quite likely that my hope will not be realized.

"...you and Catholicguy take the cake for vitriol."

But you never, ever say anything the least bit insulting, right?

LOL.

"Have a nice night--I will pray for you; I will make a novena for you..."

Thanks! I appreciate that!

"I mean this with about the same degree of sincerity as you intend when you purport to pray for me."

Gee, now I'm disappointed.

By the way, are you calling me a liar? Are you saying that I haven't prayed for you? On numerous occasions?

Come on, ultima, if that's what you mean, then say it, own up to it.

sitetest

[ultima ratio]

To confuse your blind obedience to an exercise of judgment is ludicrous. Was the Pope right to kiss the Koran? Answer yes or no. Paralyzed? I can see why. You are caught between slavish devotion and common sense. Of course he was wrong to kiss a book that blasphemes the Holy Trinity. I can see this clearly because I put the faith before the Pope. You can't, because you do the opposite.

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

You are asking whether the pope always does what is right, not whether his teaching is without error.

Or whether you are required to obey him when he instructs you not to assist at SSPX Masses.

Common confusion for non-Catholics.


sitetest

[ultima ratio]

Oh, no you don't, don't pull that with me. I never claimed I couldn't hurl an insult. I only claimed I never crossed the line and called someone a son of Satan or said their souls were full of darkness. But I can certainly feel your malice when you attack me with such comments.

[drstevej]

Wasn't aware of that. And I still think his is a great book. :0)

BTW, Hendricks book on Bible Study Methods is entitled Living by the Book. This course (content is in this book) was the most important course I took in seminary. I commend it to you.

[drstevej]

I'll leave it with your two. Turn the lights out when you are done. :-)

[RobbyS]

I have never said a word about Lefabvre. I have not denied that things are "abnormal" I simply say that things are ALWAYS "abnormal." But there are never going to hell. Somehow we stop short of that cliff. The present crisis in the Church is bad, but let us not forget that two hundred years ago, the papacy came within an inch of being snuffed out by Napoleon. It's actual ascendency to a centrality of control of the universal Church took place after that low point. If we look at the Church in the mid 16th Century before the Council did its work, we see a bad situation that WAS remedied when God raised up such saints as Phillip Neri.

[ultima ratio]

A cop out. Funny how careful you are with distinctions when it suits you. But you are blind to distinctions where anyone else is concerned. For example, in distinguishing when disobedience is not only permitted, but required--to avoid doing evil--as in doing further harm to an already badly damaged Church suffering under the relentless assaults of the Pope's best buddies. Such distinctions becloud your mind and leave you mumbling.

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

Well, because you have become your own little pope, you think that you are entitled to establish the standards by which "insults" are judged.

Catholicguy called you a "son of Satan". It is a venerable phrase thrown at schismatics and heretics, the first recorded use by a great saint of the Catholic Church, nearly two thousand years ago.

But Catholicguy is more of a saint than I am, so I don't call anyone "sons of Satan". Just not my style.

As to your heart being darkened, I'm not calling you names, I'm observing what is apparent in your postings. That you feel so injured by it tells me that I'm not far off in my observation.

Your postings are full of bile and bitterness, and hatred for the Holy Father and the Holy Catholic Church in communion with him. You attack the Church and the pope at every turn.

I have no malice toward you, ultima. Some irritation in that you have kept me up long past my bedtime. ;-)

I have pity for you.

And I will remember to pray for you again, tomorrow.

Good night.


sitetest

PS - I really was disappointed that you aren't going to pray for me.

[ultima ratio]

I do not say you lie when you say you will pray for me, but I question why you advertize the fact and tell the world about it.

[Catholicguy]

<> LOL I agree with you there. Besides, Barbarella isn't nearly as sexy or intelligent as, say, Brigitte Bardot, circa 1962 :)<>

[Catholicguy]

<> :) Talk about coincidences. I am part Algonquin (and Irish). I think that accounts for my poor portfolio and as for Manhattan - they are welcome to it:)