Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

An Open Letter to the Church Renouncing My Service on I.C.E.L.
Communicantes (Newsletter of the Society of St. Pius X in Canada) ^ | October 2002 | Rev. Fr. Stephen Somerville

Posted on 11/29/2002 5:00:21 PM PST by Loyalist

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 741-760761-780781-800 ... 941-943 next last
To: ultima ratio
And the pope gives a saint to pagans (and some here call traditionalists "sons of satan"):

Pope to give wizards a patron saint

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ MONDAY, APRIL 01, 2002 12:19:55 AM ]

BLESS YOU, Harry Potter. Thanks to Pope John Paul II, Harry will soon have a patron saint to turn to when spells threaten to go horribly wrong. The Pope is planning to name Saint Don Bosco, a 19th-century Italian priest with a passion for magic, as the patron saint of conjurers, magicians and wizards.

The idea is the brainchild of Father Silvio Mantelli, a bespectacled priest and magician who boasts the stage name Mago Sales and has devoured all of J K Rowlings Harry Potter books. He likes to celebrate mass wearing a clown's plastic red nose.

During a papal audience in January, Mantelli gave the Pope a magic wand from India. I asked whether he would be willing to name a patron saint for magicians and wizards and I suggested Don Bosco. The Pope told me this would be a way of spreading peace and wonder in the world, Mantelli said. A month later the Vatican wrote to him confirming that the Pope had given his seal of approval.

Don Bosco was born near Turin in 1815. As a child he watched visiting performers in his village piazza and developed an interest in magic from them. His repertoire included making rabbits disappear and finding coins in a loaf of bread.

Not all Catholic officials are convinced of the benefits of magic. Last December Father Gabriele Amorth, the church's best-known exorcist, said Harry Potter was inspired by the devil.

Mantelli has few doubts that the saint would watch over the fortunes of the young wizard. Harry is a force for good, theres no satanism in there at all, he said.

The books inspire me, although Potter’s is a world of fantasy. I have to use a trick or two in my line of work, but I cant perform miracles. (The Sunday Times)

761 posted on 12/05/2002 9:53:51 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 755 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio
<> Your response indicateds the depth to which this schism has dragged you. Read it and weep, Ultima. You cannot make the Catholic Profession of Faith. It is there for all to see.

There is NOTHING funny about it. It is sad beyond words...<>

762 posted on 12/05/2002 9:55:58 AM PST by Catholicguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 755 | View Replies]

To: Catholicguy; ultima ratio
Dear Catholicguy,

LOL.

I'm still filled with mirth after being compared unfavorably with Saddam Hussein gassing the Kurds. I told my wife that one. Her only comment remarked unfavorably on the stability and potential propensity for violence of ultima and his friends.

The funny thing is that I think ultima would have a tough time finding a post where I used language even half as vitriolic as he has used here. He seems to wish to make me guilty by association of every one of your posts. Well, it's quite amusing.

"It does seem to be the case that self-described 'Traditionalists' are not half as 'intelligent' and 'well read' as they imagine themselves to be. (I have been greatly amused at the number of folks he has told - on this thread alone - that they are intellectually challenged, over their head, etc etc)"

As a not-so-well-read, obviously quite-intellectually-challenged Novus Ordonian (is that the proper title??), I share in your amusement. Especially in light of all the times that ultima has completely misunderstood what he has read and posted, all the times he has misquoted folks, mischaracterized and misrepresented what they said, and even the time he just completely made up an attribution of a quote to someone.

"Sitetest, how is it that you, a lowly N.O. type (and no doubt a Papolatrist) know what I am referring to?"

Uhhh...., well,..., poorly-read sitetest.... knows to what you are referring, because, um,..., well, I read it.

"When Ultima eventually discovers the name of this Saint and reads what he had to say, as a 'traditionalist' he would be required to drop the appeal for an apology, correct? :)<>"

Well, frankly, the circumstances under which it was said, by the speaker, and to whom it was said, closely parallel the current circumstances. Except that some may challenge your possibly slightly-premature canonization, CG. ;-)

A true Catholic Traditionalist, upon recognizing the source of your epithet, would be hard pressed to disagree with it, much less demand an apology for it.

I say that as one who prefers to avoid that sort of language.


sitetest
763 posted on 12/05/2002 9:56:28 AM PST by sitetest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 748 | View Replies]

To: Catholicguy
Dear Catholicguy,

Very interesting post. Thanks.


sitetest
764 posted on 12/05/2002 9:59:27 AM PST by sitetest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 757 | View Replies]

To: Catholicguy
Great post.

"The `Constitution on the Church' makes it abundantly clear that Rome has no intention of revising any of her basic doctrine, ...There is no indication that she has any intentions of entering into genuine give-and-take church unity negotiations. Her purpose is not union, but ABSORPTION. Church union with Rome is strictly a one-way street. The age-old danger that Protestantism has faced from the Roman Church has not diminished; in fact, it may well have increased. For through this less offensive posture and this superficial ecumenicism, Rome is much better situated to carry out her program of eliminating opposition and moving into a position of world dominance.

Is it just me or do they sound scared? They're the ones that protested.
765 posted on 12/05/2002 10:04:40 AM PST by Desdemona
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 757 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio; sitetest
Sitetest only sounds that way to you because sitetest follows both the pope and God Almighty unlike the folks in SSPX who reject the pope and in doing so, also defy God Almighty. [Will UR reconsider and return? Never mind.]
766 posted on 12/05/2002 10:05:09 AM PST by BlackElk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 728 | View Replies]

To: Zviadist
The huggy-kissy style, the buddy-buddy style, is liberalism in action. Liberals like to be equals with their children. They despise hierarchies, even within the family. They equate discipline and order with being punitive and rigid. They dislike dignified reserve and titles of honor or distinction. It is the Diana-fication of the Church that permeates the spirit of the Novus Ordo--the sentimental tunes, the big deal over the "kiss of peace", the Doctor Laura homilies. I see the connection--the horizontalism--in this priest's over-familiarity with children and the children's parents' toleration of it. What is a priest doing horsing around with kids? He is their spiritual mentor, not a playground playmate. Yet the confusion is such in the New Church that even parents can't discern the difference.
767 posted on 12/05/2002 10:06:07 AM PST by ultima ratio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 756 | View Replies]

To: Catholicguy; ultima ratio; All
Curious as to who wrote this assessment. Nevertheless, I an observation or two.

***"The `Constitution on the Church' makes it abundantly clear that Rome has no intention of revising any of her basic doctrine, but only of updating her methods and techniques for more efficient administration and to present a more attractive appearance. This is designed to make it easier for the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and Protestant churches to return to her fold.***

If this is the case (and it may well be as far a I have studied it) there may be unintended consequences for the RCC.

First, the "apparent" ecumenical openness of Vatican II may convey to rank in file Catholics that we Protestant "separated brethren" aren't so bad and thereby make them feel more comfortable attending home Bible studies, etc. led by evangelicals with the result that these RC fringe people become evangelical Protestants.

Second, the "apparent" ecumenical openness of Vatican II may be just the cover needed for liberal forces within the RCC to push the envelope to include compromise of RCC doctrine and tradition.

I am not prepared to say to what extent the second has happened. I have seen many, many instances of the first. In fact, I don't doubt that the whole ECT debacle was in part motivated by a RC desire to stem the inroads being made by evangelicals. Theologically the ECT statement was deceptive at best. No orthodox Catholic or Protestant should have signed it.
768 posted on 12/05/2002 10:10:28 AM PST by drstevej
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 757 | View Replies]

To: sitetest
Well, frankly, the circumstances under which it was said, by the speaker, and to whom it was said, closely parallel the current circumstances. Except that some may challenge your possibly slightly-premature canonization, CG. ;-)

<> LOL Well, I have often said (semi-joking) that given my love of fighting(among other myriad sins), I would need martyrdom just to sneak into the lowest ring of Purgatory

As regards your use of language, I call you the Charity Sheriff as a compliment and the wall of my den is nearly completely papered with your citations :)

You took on an enormous burden when you decided to re-form me:)<>

769 posted on 12/05/2002 10:15:10 AM PST by Catholicguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 763 | View Replies]

To: BlackElk
You're another one who can't make distinctions. I have never rejected the Pope. Got it--or is it too much for you? I have criticized the Pope, but I have never rejected him or his papacy. In fact, it is Sitetest who rejects the Catholic faith by rejecting its Tradition. As for yourself, at best you seem confused. I don't doubt why you can't make up your mind. On the one hand you worship the pope since the papacy is the only Catholic entity left remaining in the modernist debacle; on the other, you see that the corruption is systemic and is tolerated by Rome. So you waffle.
770 posted on 12/05/2002 10:18:56 AM PST by ultima ratio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 766 | View Replies]

To: Zviadist

Entertainers of every kind were welcomed to the mass in St Peter's Square

Circus mass ends Vatican jubilee
By David Willey in Rome

Pope John Paul II has presided over the last special event of the Catholic Church's Jubilee celebrations, with a mass devoted to the world of entertainment.

Actors, film directors, funfair workers, jugglers and circus and mime artists were among thousands of people attending the mass in St Peter's Square...

771 posted on 12/05/2002 10:21:06 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 758 | View Replies]

To: BlackElk
Dear BlackElk,

Thank you for your defense. But ultima has a point, here:

"Your patronizing tone is incredible for somebody so limited. You talk as if you were the Pope and God-Almighty at the same time."

I AM incredibly limited.

Recognizing my limits, I recognize that I am unable to judge the Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Catholic Church, especially as he teaches, either with ordinary or extraordinary magisterial authority.

I recognize that I have no possible source of authority to actively disobey, and rebel against the Supreme Pontiff.

I recognize that it is the absolute Will of Jesus Christ that I submit fully and completely to the legitimate authority of the Supreme Pontiff, His Vicar on earth.

Ultima seems to be unable to see that he has similar limitations, and thus, seems to feel that he is not constrained as I am, as described above.


sitetest
772 posted on 12/05/2002 10:22:28 AM PST by sitetest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 766 | View Replies]

To: drstevej
Your argument is well stated.
773 posted on 12/05/2002 10:24:58 AM PST by ultima ratio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 768 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio

Picture of bishop-approved "Gay Mass" (sic). More fruits -- and I mean fruits -- of Vatican II.

774 posted on 12/05/2002 10:27:26 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 770 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio
Dear ultima ratio,

"In fact, it is Sitetest who rejects the Catholic faith by rejecting its Tradition."

I don't reject Catholic Tradition.

I do reject the belief that I am competent to interpret Catholic Tradition.

I do reject the belief that any interpretion that I may make of Tradition, or that any interpretation of Tradition made by anyone else, ought to be held in higher esteem than the living teaching of the pope.


sitetest
775 posted on 12/05/2002 10:30:22 AM PST by sitetest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 770 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio

Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan of Milwaulkee does a "cheese-head Mass". And Archbishop Lefebvre is attacked for seeking to prevent this logical conclusion of the Second Vatican Council "reforms". He will be remembered as the Saint Athanasius of the modern age.
776 posted on 12/05/2002 10:30:44 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 773 | View Replies]

To: Zviadist
Agreed.
777 posted on 12/05/2002 10:35:35 AM PST by ultima ratio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 776 | View Replies]

To: Catholicguy; sitetest; BlackElk; Desdemona; Zviadist; Polycarp
I am interested in your reaction and others to my observations in post Post 768.

In some ways I am saying both sides are right.

[1] Vatican II (as the quote suggests) does retain RC theology consistent with Trent and is only "apparent" openness.

[2] Yet this openness has backfired strategically.

778 posted on 12/05/2002 10:36:35 AM PST by drstevej
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 769 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio
You see my posting of the "gay mass" picture? I don't recall the Traditional Mass ever celebrating a mass to glorify perversions. That's the problem with traditionalists: they are so intolerant!
779 posted on 12/05/2002 10:40:45 AM PST by Zviadist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 777 | View Replies]

To: Zviadist
He will be remembered as the Saint Athanasius of the modern age.

No he won't. Athanasius never, ever, defied the pope, as did Lefebvre. The claim by SSPXers that Athanasius set the precedent for their disobedience to the Supreme Pontiff is pure baloney, as are most of their claims, premises, and general attitudes.

780 posted on 12/05/2002 10:50:25 AM PST by St.Chuck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 776 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 741-760761-780781-800 ... 941-943 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson