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To: OLD REGGIE
even though such interpretations were never (intended) to be at any time published

Reggie, have you asked yourself what the term "such interpretations" refers too? Given its place in the sentence of the decree, the "such interpretations" could refer either to the subject of the immediately prior clause -- the unanimous consent of the Fathers--or it could refer to the subject of the whole decree--the interpretations of the pestulant spirits that are either contrary to the sense of the text accepted by the Church or the sense of the text having unanimous consent of the Fathers. The antecedent of "such interpretations" is the interpretations of pestulant spirits, namely, the interpretations are forbidden EVEN IF NOT YET PUBLISHED. That is the subject matter of the whole decree--the interpretations of the pestulant spirits. Certainly, the decree is not at all forbidding the publication of the writings of the Fathers. After all, Bellarmine, (and de Sales and a million others) were, after Trent, reading published copies of the Fathers and constructing again and again, overwhelming arguments, drawn from the full range of Patristic writings, showing that there was unanimous consent of the Fathers on this or that point. Even if you deny in advance that such arguments are possible, they have already been produced. Read any one of these authors.

You would be better off not reading the Bible at allWhy in the world would you say that? Would it be better off not to read it just because I cannot make it say whatever I personally want, but am to understand it along with the rest of the Church? Are you saying that just because you cannot be a lone ranger, you cannot profit from the text? Unless I interpret the text on my own authority, like you do, it is not worth studying or contemplating at all?

As for the list of Fathers, much of what they wrote is available online at www.newadvent.org Take about fifteen years off, work through that list of texts, then tell me you cannot prove anything. Then learn Latin and Greek, then take another forty years and read the texts that have not been translated. Until then, you are simply stepping way beyond your ability to verify what can and cannot be done.

412 posted on 11/23/2002 2:29:57 PM PST by pseudo-justin
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To: pseudo-justin
(OR) You would be better off not reading the Bible at all

"Why in the world would you say that? Would it be better off not to read it just because I cannot make it say whatever I personally want, but am to understand it along with the rest of the Church? Are you saying that just because you cannot be a lone ranger, you cannot profit from the text? Unless I interpret the text on my own authority, like you do, it is not worth studying or contemplating at all?

Because you are not competent or qualified to do so. That is not my opinion, it is the stated as a fact by your Church. Rather than stick your neck out and possibly be in serious error you should simply ask for the "authentic" interpretation. Shut of your "Thinker" and turn on your "Acceptor".

Catholic Catechism 100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him. Article 3

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As for the list of Fathers, much of what they wrote is available online at www.newadvent.org Take about fifteen years off, work through that list of texts, then tell me you cannot prove anything. Then learn Latin and Greek, then take another forty years and read the texts that have not been translated. Until then, you are simply stepping way beyond your ability to verify what can and cannot be done.

Surely you are aware "much" doesn't begin to approach the all inclusiveness of "unanimous". I am asking for your unique definition of "unanimous" and how you intend to prove it.

Since you obviously feel it is within your ability to "verify what can or cannot be done", why don't you do it for this simpleton and the millions of others in the same condition.

It is not possible, is it, that you are simply submitting your will and intellect to the "Church" and accepting what "they" say simply because "they" said it?

Canon 752: “While the assent of faith is not required, a religious submission of intellect and will is to be given to any doctrine which either the Supreme Pontiff or the College of Bishops, exercising their authentic Magisterium, declare upon a matter of faith or morals, even though they do not intend to proclaim that doctrine by definitive act. Christ's faithful are therefore to ensure that they avoid whatever does not accord with that doctrine.”

Canon 753: “While not infallible in their teaching, [Catholic bishops] are the authentic instructors and teachers of the faith for Christ's faithful entrusted to their care. The faithful are bound to adhere, with a religious submission of mind, to this authentic Magisterium of their Bishops.”

There, that makes it easier for you, no longer a need for pretense, no longer a need to think, simply submit your will, mind, and intellect!

414 posted on 11/24/2002 8:47:02 AM PST by OLD REGGIE
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