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To: Quester
The Holy Spirit simultaneously guides the the Church Universal, the individual christian, and individual groups of christians. The degrees to which individual christians, christian groups, or the church reflect the teaching of the Holy Spirit derives from the degree that any of these is receptive and obedient to the teaching of the Holy Spirit

I agree. I also agree when you say that we do not always receive the teaching of the Holy Spirit in a perfectly receptive ways, that deception is on the part of the receiver, not the giver. Ok.

Now how do you know two things:

1. The Holy Spirit is teaching the Universal Church X.

2. The Universal Church is receiving without deception the Holy Spirit's infallible teaching that X.

Unless there are clear conditions which, if satisfied, give me the knowledge that 1 and 2 are true, what difference does it make that the Holy Spirit is teaching X? What difference does it make that the Holy Spirit is teaching that X to the Universal Church unless we can know that the Holy Spirit is teaching X to teh Universal Church?

After all, it is you who sayMany times, we truly do not know what we think we know.

Please do not reply that the sign is agreement by all Christians, for then we would be really screwed--seeing as to how disagreement has plagued virtually every teaching ever put forward.

395 posted on 11/22/2002 1:39:02 PM PST by pseudo-justin
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To: pseudo-justin
Now how do you know two things:

1. The Holy Spirit is teaching the Universal Church X.

2. The Universal Church is receiving without deception the Holy Spirit's infallible teaching that X.

Unless there are clear conditions which, if satisfied, give me the knowledge that 1 and 2 are true, what difference does it make that the Holy Spirit is teaching X?

What difference does it make that the Holy Spirit is teaching that X to the Universal Church unless we can know that the Holy Spirit is teaching X to the Universal Church?

Even if the Holy Spirit's teaching is to, and so, ultimately, through the Church, any individual Christian can (and should) confirm that teaching with GOD, Himself, per ...

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

In this very way, many have found that GOD's Word to the Church, delivered through the action of the Holy Spirit, has nonetheless been corrupted (by various degrees) by the very church authorities (with which they have had association) who were given the responsibility of faithfully delivering the Word of GOD to His people.

Fortunately for these, God is faithful to direct them to church leadership which more faithfully delivers His Word.


401 posted on 11/22/2002 2:27:28 PM PST by Quester
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