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To: RnMomof7
Actually Gram you are seeking as a man to interfer with their free will choice to remain unsaved..and you are asking God to do that work FOR YOU at your request

You're wrong there. I don't pray as if reciting a "shopping list" or as if I were attempting to manipulate God to do as I wish. I pray to help reinforce my own conception of what God wants done. Since I believe the Bible when it says "[God] willeth that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth," that means that I pray for God to "interfere" in others' lives that they may receive the grace that I know God wants to give them.

You seek to make both God and the man act as you will not as THEY will.

I seek to bring my own purposes into alignment with God's own, and to pray for others' salvation.

Those of us that believe God is really sovereign over all matters would say "God graciously acts to affect their agency in such a way such that they have a truly free choice in the matter."

No, actually, I chose the word 'affect their agency' specifically for a reason. "Affect" is to influence. "Effect" is to irresistibly necessitate change. I pray for God to affect their agency; you and those that think that they believe "God is really sovereign" pray for God to effect a change in man's agency.

You seem to think it is ok for you to pick the target where Gods grace should be sent to affect their will..but if does it He is making man a pupppet [sic].

Nope, I only "pick the target where Gods [sic] grace should be sent," etc., because I believe that that aligns with God's purposes. I pray for those around me because God has placed them there.

Rom 9:21 "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" Are you the potters foreman?:>)..You do need to stop praying like that if you REALLY believe that free agency is a right

I love out-of-context proof-texting, don't you?

46 posted on 11/20/2002 12:12:38 PM PST by The Grammarian
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To: The Grammarian
You're wrong there. I don't pray as if reciting a "shopping list" or as if I were attempting to manipulate God to do as I wish. I pray to help reinforce my own conception of what God wants done. Since I believe the Bible when it says "[God] willeth that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth," that means that I pray for God to "interfere" in others' lives that they may receive the grace that I know God wants to give them.

You are asking God to interfer with the free will of another man..IF YOU REALLY believed in Free will, you would NEVER ask God to compromise that free will by His intervention.(thats what free will means..FREE of ALL intervention).If God REALLY wants all men without exception saved he is doing a poor job wouldn't you say? He is really quite hapless it seems

But that is all beside the point ..Gram you have NO RIGHT to ask God to give special grace to one man over another and to compromise his free will in the process ..so cut it out!

Many words in the post to try to cover up the fact you have the nerve to say God interfering makes men puppets EXCEPT if He is doing YOUR will then it is a gracious intervention..Bologna...you want it both ways..get consistant and stop those prayers NOW .Your prayer is simply your attempt to manipulate God and the will of others..

47 posted on 11/20/2002 5:38:24 PM PST by RnMomof7
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