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Principles of Literal Bible Interpretation
Bible Truth ^ | Revised, Aug 2001 | Cooper P. Abrams, III

Posted on 10/29/2002 5:18:29 AM PST by xzins



TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: actual; allegorical; bible; figurative; interpretation; literal; real; symbolic
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To: theAmbassador
Am I to infer that you are one of those Pentecostal howler monkeys who babbles in strange tongues, leaps over tall chairs, and has seizures on the floor in a demonic charade of true Pentecostalism and calls ambassadors for the kingdom of God possessed?

No, actually I don't attend a Pentecostal or charismatic church, but I know many and have tremendous respect for them as children of God and your mischaracterization of them is slanderous and shows your true character (or lack thereof).

However, as I have never posted to you before, or received any nasty slurs that I actually am possessed with a demon, I will in charity answer your question: I am an ambassador for the kingdom of God.

Your posts (fruit) will show what kind of tree you are. I'll let them speak for themselves.

161 posted on 10/30/2002 3:58:56 PM PST by Iowegian
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To: RnMomof7
We all agree on the reading of scripture that says there is no salvation by works, and all that surrounds that

Mom, Mom, Mom...

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work

to do what? All scripture is inspired by God for use to teach etc that the man of God may be complete to do good what? "Work"

2 Tim 3:16-17 said all that for one to do "GOOD WORKS"
162 posted on 10/30/2002 3:59:09 PM PST by Irisshlass
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To: Corin Stormhands
I know a few weeks ago Woody () and Rn thought I was Jesse. But you were, was, is wrong.

I think you are a nice person, so you can't be me! I'm accused all day long of being Stickywings, the Chicken. Must be my Kentucky accent.

163 posted on 10/30/2002 4:06:09 PM PST by JesseShurun
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To: RnMomof7; jude24; nobdysfool; theAmbassador; Jerry_M
See #159.

Notice that PNAMBC doesn't even entertain the possibility that I am correct. But I am.

Look again at John 5:28-29 and 2 Peter 3 and tell me who is being an arrogant, scoffing blasphemer. For some reason, PNAMBC has no particular fear concerning the coming Day of the Lord. Maybe that's because he's a Christian. Ah, but maybe that's because he's not a Christian.

(Isn't this whole thing intriguing?)

164 posted on 10/30/2002 4:34:18 PM PST by the_doc
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To: RnMomof7; jude24; nobdysfool; theAmbassador; Jerry_M
My #164 probably warrants a little more discussion.

You need to appreciate why I am concerned about the dispensational movement. I have noticed that many of the dispensationalists convince themselves that faith is essentially the absence of any really profound fear of God—so long as they also believe in the dispensational premillennial position, of course!

This is why they prefer Amyrauldianism or even Arminianism over true Calvinism. They don’t like the God of the double predestinarians.

This is also why they say that repentance is merely a change of mind--which is a fatal oversimplification.

This is also why they have such confused views of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Ryrie’s position is TERRIBLE.

This is why dispensationalist pastors haven't noticed the truly horrifying implications of 1 Corinthians 3.

What they have failed to realize is that conversion is somewhat rarer than they have assumed. Now, am I pronouncing PNAMBC lost? Nope. But he needs to think about what I have said above.

***

Anyway, I maintain, based on 2 Peter 3, that if a person believes only in the Jesus-who-will-not-destroy-the-world-immediately-upon-his-return, then we should not be at all surprised that such a professing Christian refuses to fear the God of the Calvinists. I say that he believes in a Jesus who is merely a figment of his own imagination. I therefore say that he is, by definition, a fool on his way to hell.

(Even if you don’t yet share all of my eschatological views, do you see my logic, given my eschatological position? Do you see why I am concerned that premillennialism really is a horribly nasty end-time deception which will seal many people in Protestant idolatry?)

Some folks equate faith with believing they are on their way to heaven. But this is an incredibly bad mistake. The problem is, the very reason why some folks think they are going to heaven is because they are going to hell. Think about that one for a while. It’s true.

And some folks have such a lousy soteriology that they can’t stand discussions of this sort. For them to consider even the possibility that they are lost would be unbelief-- based on everything which they have been led to believe. This is why they are so brutish when the theology gets over their heads in disturbing ways.

Bottom-line point: Based on all the dispies I have known, repentance unto life is a more profound experience than their pastors are telling them.

165 posted on 10/30/2002 5:11:50 PM PST by the_doc
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To: the_doc
Aside to RnMomof7 and jude and nobdysfool: You need to re-think what you have already read on these threads. The premillennial arguments have been an order of magnitude more ridiculous than you have been willing to notice. Part of your confusion stems from the fact that you have approached the premill arguments as premills yourselves.

You are correct that when anyone reads scripture they take their bias with them..I know I have tried to remove my bias and ask God to SHOW me the truth..

Having read the John and Luke and Ephesisan scriptures with an eye to eschatology only I would agree that they support a kingdom now amil position..

166 posted on 10/30/2002 5:12:55 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
I meant to flag you in my 164 and 165. Sorry.
167 posted on 10/30/2002 5:19:24 PM PST by the_doc
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To: Irisshlass; PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Paul does not say ALL men ..He is speaking of the elect of God..He clearly says THE MAN OF GOD is completely equipped

Now what does that mean?

One IS NOT a MAN of God untill you are saved..One is saved by Faith in the shed Blood of Jesus Christ

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Man does not receive the gift of faith by the works of men or a church or by obedience to the Law

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Just as Paul told his young friend Timothy faith comes by the word of God..THAT will fully equip him to meet God

Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Fully equipped Irish..

1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

168 posted on 10/30/2002 5:25:49 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: the_doc
***This is why they prefer Amyrauldianism or even Arminianism over true Calvinism. They don’t like the God of the double predestinarians.***

So are single predestinarian 5 point Calvinists now in your doghouse? Are they not true Calvinists? You are more rigid than the Synod of Dort?

I guess real Calvinists dance to your tune!


169 posted on 10/30/2002 5:26:22 PM PST by drstevej
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To: Irisshlass
I said all scripture and I meant all

     2Ti 3:16   All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

     2Ti 3:17   That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Of course ...did any of us ever say the elect were to sit home and wait for Christ to return?

NO we all believe in the Great Commission...but we do not believe that we are saved by it..but rather BECAUSE we are saved and equipped by the word of God we are to go forth IN HIS NAME and preach the gospel and feed the hungry and cloth the naked ..We desire crowns to throw at His feet Irish..

Look for the fruit..without it there is no life in the tree

170 posted on 10/30/2002 5:33:28 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7; jude24; nobdysfool; theAmbassador; Jerry_M
Having read the John and Luke and Ephesisan scriptures with an eye to eschatology only I would agree that they support a kingdom now amil position.

Thanks! I appreciate your response, even if it was softer than I might have hoped.

I don't want to push you too hard, but I think I will have to go on record, even in my patient way, that I am daring to ask for a little more from you than what you said in your post.

The problem is, you still seem to be a pan-mill. That's not a proper, mature position for someone of your "age" (ha!).

If you will re-read and actually trust the passages in John 5:28-29 and 2 Peter 3, you will specifically and forever renounce premillennialism. BOTH of these passages declare that the premillennialism is SCRIPTURALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

No kidding. It's kind of like Hebrews 10:14. It's staring you in the face; you just don't want to believe what you are looking at.

You need to quit dreaming that the PREMILLENNIAL LIE might still be true. If you do, Eve, you're cooked.

Remember: I said premillennialism is demonically energized. Demonic powers are stubborn, idolatrous deceivers. Think about that.

171 posted on 10/30/2002 5:39:48 PM PST by the_doc
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To: RnMomof7; the_doc
***I don't want to push you too hard, but I think I will have to go on record, even in my patient way, that I am daring to ask for a little more from you than what you said in your post.***

Mom, you're snapping your fingers and tapping your toes, but doc says, "Dance!"


172 posted on 10/30/2002 5:45:07 PM PST by drstevej
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To: the_doc; RnMomof7
Rapture Exercises!

Don't be a Left-Behind!

173 posted on 10/30/2002 5:54:23 PM PST by drstevej
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To: drstevej
Corin's chuch has a trampoline  
174 posted on 10/30/2002 6:01:39 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
Hope it is an asbestos trampoline!
175 posted on 10/30/2002 6:03:06 PM PST by drstevej
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Comment #176 Removed by Moderator

To: RnMomof7
Man of God...they are ordained, they preach, teach and administer sacraments..

2 Timothy 2
2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.


Titus 1
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,


1 Timothy 4
14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.


1 Timothy 5
Concerning Elders
17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.


James 5
13 Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises.
14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.

1 Cor 12
29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?
30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not (43) interpret, do they?
177 posted on 10/30/2002 6:16:25 PM PST by Irisshlass
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To: the_doc
Ok...I have moved from a historic premil position to an amil position due mostly to a consideration of the Isaiah and Ezekiel scriptures put forth by xzins ...I have then further considered the New Testament scriptures in John and the parable in Luke and the words of Paul..

Together they have convenced me that the kingdom of God is here present and when Christ returns it will be to judge the world

I am in NO position to defend this position right now..but it is where I am

178 posted on 10/30/2002 6:19:44 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Irisshlass
I love you searching scripture ..many do not your know?

I believe in a church structure and accountability too..just because I am not Catholic does not mean I am an "independant contractor":>)

The question at hand is did the original church which later grew into the Roman Catholic church move away from the true gospel?

179 posted on 10/30/2002 6:36:19 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: the_doc; xzins; Revelation 911; PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain; fortheDeclaration
I really am being careful in ways which some folks would never be willing to acknowledge. I am being pretty patient even while I am doing my level best to advance the discussion to the only satisfactory resolution. If my approach seems too rough, I'm afraid it's precisely because premillennialism is an uglier error than you realize. It is demonically energized. Get away from it.

You are such a psychopath. Your buddies are merely obnoxious.

YOU are certifiable.

180 posted on 10/30/2002 7:11:13 PM PST by Corin Stormhands
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