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To: RobbyS
Every hail Mary contains the name of Jesus. You object to that?

Yes. In Catholicism Jesus seems only to exist to exalt Mary. The greater we make Jesus, the greater Mary must be. She is the object of some huge percentage of the focus. That percentage differs from one RC to the next but in many cases it is probably 80 percent.

248 posted on 10/15/2002 10:37:15 AM PDT by biblewonk
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To: biblewonk
She is the object of some huge percentage of the focus.

Only in your dreams.

262 posted on 10/15/2002 11:45:22 AM PDT by Polycarp
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To: biblewonk
The greater we make Jesus, the greater Mary must be

There's a historical nub of truth in this. Mary can be the Mother of God only if Jesus is God. We can easily forget that Jesus is not only our savior but our judge . Better to approach him with tepidation, and humbly beg the Virgin and the saints, to plead our case for us. How seldom do we look at the Last Judgement in the Sistine Chapel and that terrible figure of Christ. But, I forget, Jesus has already wrapped his arms around us and already forgiven whatever slaps in the face we will give him the rest of our lives!

274 posted on 10/15/2002 12:52:28 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: biblewonk
>>In Catholicism Jesus seems only to exist to exalt Mary. The greater we make Jesus, the greater Mary must be. She is the object of some huge percentage of the focus. That percentage differs from one RC to the next but in many cases it is probably 80 percent.

I think, just the opposite. The whole reason that Mary is important is that she is the Mother of Jesus, and the Mother of God title historically developed because of its bearing on our understanding of the nature of Christ as "true God and true Man." When the Docetists claimed he only "seemed to die," that he wasn't a man, only a god who could NOT die... the Church had to reiterate that he had a mother, he was a man, true God and true man... and Mary was declared the "Mother of God," in that context. She is important as an example of what we are called to be, humble and obedient to God, but especially important because she, through her obedience, gave us Jesus. Even back then, she could have had an abortion... she cooperated with what God wanted and through her, Jesus was able to born and so to die to save us. It's all about Jesus.

Also, in the majority of Catholic churches today, for better or for worse, you rarely hear the name of Mary. At every Mass, we have three or four Scripture passages that are read (four on Sundays, something from the Old Testament, an Epistle or something from Acts, a psalm, and a reading from one of the Gospels... the same readings in the same three year cycle that many Protestant churches now use). Then a homily related to those readings, and a Communion service which recalls and helps us to connect with Jesus' last supper and death on the Cross. If you listen closely, you may hear Mary's name mentioned in passing, but the Mass is the central form of prayer for all Catholics, what we celebrate every Sunday, and for many, every day... and it's not about Mary. If someone were so fixated on Mary that they didn't have room in their lives for Jesus, that would certainly be an abuse, though Mary herself, I believe, would be pointing us back to Jesus, just as she did at Cana when she said, "Do whatever he tells you..." If a Catholic didn't understand that, they've quite misunderstood.
288 posted on 10/15/2002 3:39:37 PM PDT by MarthaB
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