No-Kneeling Rule Sparks Widespread Outcry

National Catholic Register ^ | Sept. 29-Oct. 5, 2002 | JOHN BURGER

[american colleen]

Hi!

I haven't seen you post on the religious forum before, so I looked at your homepage and found you are from Massachusetts, like I am. My kids never saw anyone kneel for Communion either, and it really bothered me a lot. I want them to know about the rich Catholic tradition that is ours by baptism. Anyway, I brought them into the "Tridentine" Mass at the Holy Trinity Church in Boston, and it was unbelievably beautiful. There are directions on the homepage. Make sure you have a veil for your head if you go! Noontime Latin Mass.

For a beautiful, orthodox Mass, I sometimes take them into Holy Cross Cathedral, Cardinal Law's home parish. Mass is at 11 AM.

[american colleen]

Well, you accidentally crossed over the "schism" bridge and by the grace of God, came back. So I wonder if you look at the "Latin Mass" as a possible stepping stone towards schism?

I don't know any "Indulties," so then I don't know anyone who says, or thinks, that the Latin Mass is the only "real" Mass. For me, both are equally beautiful and reverential (if said properly in the case of the NO), but it is easier (and more widespread, obviously) for the "Novus Ordo" to fall into less reverential habits. The rubrics are easier to abuse. Plus the "innovators" cannot innovate with the Latin Mass, but they certainly can, and have with the NO Mass.

That said, the Pope says the NO, and that is good enough for me!

[american colleen]

He recently hosted a conference of SSPX Priest in Paris about Vatican II where he blamed the council on Jews, Communists, and Freemasons.

What a nut.

[Catholicguy]

Well, you accidentally crossed over the "schism" bridge and by the grace of God, came back. So I wonder if you look at the "Latin Mass" as a possible stepping stone towards schism?

<> No, I never did UnPope. I flirted with the schism..but I didn't go all the way:)<>

I don't know any "Indulties," so then I don't know anyone who says, or thinks, that the Latin Mass is the only "real" Mass. For me, both are equally beautiful and reverential (if said properly in the case of the NO), but it is easier (and more widespread, obviously) for the "Novus Ordo" to fall into less reverential habits. The rubrics are easier to abuse. Plus the "innovators" cannot innovate with the Latin Mass, but they certainly can, and have with the NO Mass.

That said, the Pope says the NO, and that is good enough for me!

[Catholicguy]

Of course that's a big "if" because recently Bishop Williamson has been off the wall. He recently hosted a conference of SSPX Priest in Paris about Vatican II where he blamed the council on Jews, Communists, and Freemasons

<> LOL He is nutz.<>

[Flying Circus]

Using the communion rail is one of the things I love about our church. It stands out in stark contrast to most other churches in the diocese where it is rare that anyone kneels or genuflects in church.

[FBDinNJ]

Actually its been acknowledged that the Pope recently said one of his private masses according to the 1962 missal, and rumors have been flying around that he's still been saying the Tridentine mass in private.

[FBDinNJ]

You could make that case, but they didn't cause Vatican II, it was our Bishops who did that. Even if you argued that Communists and Freemasons had infiltrated the priesthood and became Bishops, who were at the council. How would this line of reasoning work for jews? I'm not exactly sure where the Jewish voting bloc was at Vatican II

[Flying Circus]

We also go to the same church!

[Sursum Corda]

No, it doesn't bother me that the NO is 'normative'. It would seem to bother you if the NO ceased to be 'normative'. Why is that?

Sursum Corda

[sinkspur]

It would seem to bother you if the NO ceased to be 'normative'. Why is that?

The NO would be normative for me. I have no desire to attend a Tridentine Liturgy. Thankfully, I don't have to worry about that in my parish.

[Irisshlass]

http://www.rcf.org/docs/strada01.htm

24 September 2002


The Most Reverend Paul S. Loverde
Diocese of Arlington
200 North Glebe Road, Suite 704
Arlington, VA 22203

Your Excellency,

I am writing to most strongly protest the despicable treatment of the Honorable Richard Black, member of the Virginia House of Delegates, by your Cathedral's Rector, Fr. Dominic Irace, at the 9:30 Mass on Sunday, 22 September. During Delegate Black's first visit to the
Cathedral for Mass, he dropped to one knee to receive Holy Communion, as he regularly
does in his home parish and elsewhere; Fr. Irace, however, told him that he must stand to receive. Delegate Black chose, instead, to move on, since Fr. Irace would only administer the Sacred Host under his (Irace's) "terms."

This affront to Delegate Black, and his family, is doubly shameful because Delegate Black is, without question, the most courageous defender of the innocent unborn on the floor of the House of Delegates in Richmond. One has to wonder if Fr. Irace would have been so bold as to refuse Holy Communion to Senator Ted Kennedy or other militantly pro-abortion "Catholic" politicians who regularly attend Mass in Arlington churches.

To further compound this outrageous insult to the Black family, Fr. Irace verbally assaulted Delegate Black, shouting insults to him as exited the Cathedral. When Delegate Black tried to avoid Fr. Irace, pointing out that he had refused him Holy Communion, Fr. Irace shouted "you liar!" several times. As Delegate Black left the Cathedral, Fr. Irace loudly called him
a "conservative idiot," before many witnesses (from whom you will no doubt hear). Are these "pastoral skills" fit for a Rector? (One doubts, for example, that Irace would have called Ted Kennedy a "liberal idiot.") The irascible Irace's tongue-lashings and rude outbursts are, unfortunately, well known to many, but this time he has crossed all bounds of civil behavior, especially as the Cathedral Rector.

I most strongly recommend that you or your Chancellor take the following actions to remedy this shameful situation:

* Instruct Fr. Irace on the contents of the letter from Jorge Cardinal Medina Estevez (Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments), which includes this admonition to the American bishops: ". . . protect those faithful
who will inevitably be led by their own sensibilities to kneel, from imprudent action by
priests, deacons, or lay ministers in particular, or from being refused Holy Communion for such a reason. . ." (25 October 2001, italics mine).

* Enroll Fr. Irace in a course (or two) in pastoral skills and/or anger management;

* Personally contact Delegate Black and apologize to him and his family on behalf of the diocese, assuring him that, in accordance with Vatican direction, he will not be refused Holy Communion for kneeling in any diocesan church.

I look forward to hearing from you on this most important matter, which certainly would not pass the "Washington Post test."

Respectfully in Christ,


Joseph A. Strada

[Sursum Corda]

Is that back pedaling or just another of your 'change the subject' obfuscations?

Sinkspur, your slip is showing. :-)

Sursum Corda

[sinkspur]

Is that back pedaling or just another of your 'change the subject' obfuscations?

No. John Paul II has never celebrated anything but the Novus Ordo in public. Why?

Because the Novus Ordo is "normative."

[Aristophanes]

I'm an Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist, and I would never refuse Holy Communion to anyone who is kneeling before God.

Suzi,

Were you aware that the Vatican in a motu proprio has condemned the habitual use of "Extraordinary" Eucharistic Ministers? Probably not. Yet another unheeded, unenforced instruction by the Vatican, which is dutifully ignored by the disobedient AmChurch.

No offense intended toward you -- only the American bishops.

[Desdemona]

Were you aware that the Vatican in a motu proprio has condemned the habitual use of "Extraordinary" Eucharistic Ministers? Probably not. Yet another unheeded, unenforced instruction by the Vatican, which is dutifully ignored by the disobedient AmChurch.

Ping.

[sinkspur]

Were you aware that the Vatican in a motu proprio has condemned the habitual use of "Extraordinary" Eucharistic Ministers?

What does the Vatican propose in a parish of 7500 average Mass attendance on Sundays and one priest?

That's fairly common here in Dallas and Fort Worth.