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To: Gophack
.. RN, you know that isn't true. As Catholics, we believe that we did NOTHING and can DO NOTHING to merit salvation, and ONLY through the grace of God do we have a chance for eternal life.

I think that is said but not really believed...Catholics have a complicated sacramental system to be justified by and Purgatory is an example of that it is a kind of self justification

We do believe that mortal sin, even as a believer, separates a Christian from the kingdom of Heaven because no one unclean can see God. Therefore, it is important to keep God's commandments and seek forgiveness when we sin.

Born again believers believe they are justified by the atonment of Christ..All our sin is coverd by the blood of Christ..it is the righteousness of Christ that allows us to come before God ..not our righteousness ..but the righteousness of the perfect lamb...

All sin seperates us from God...but it is not sin that puts you in hell..it is not having a Savior that puts you there.

How does the world KNOW that you are His? By what they see..that is what James was addressing..

The dead sea is dead not because it does not take in clean water..it is dead because it has no outlet...God's grace saves us , justifies us and makes us righteous..God's grace santifies us and makes us holy...but the grace of God also makes us desire to "work" for Him...

Our works flow out of our salvation...they do not cause it

743 posted on 10/11/2002 10:22:52 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
I think that is said but not really believed

The teaching of the Catholic Church on the matter of salvation is quite clear. It would be quite a conspiracy for a church of over 1 billion members and hundreds of thousands of priests and religious to go "wink, wink, that's what we say but not what we mean". You do not know the hearts of men, so I don't think you can say this with any authority.

We are not justified by the Sacraments.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.[42] "Since "without faith it is impossible to please [God]" and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life 'But he who endures to the end.'"]

We can lose the gift of faith:
162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man. We can lose this priceless gift, as St. Paul indicated to St. Timothy: "Wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith."[44] To live, grow and persevere in the faith until the end we must nourish it with the word of God; we must beg the Lord to increase our faith;[45] it must be "working through charity," abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church.[46]

On faith:
166 Faith is a personal act - the free response of the human person to the initiative of God who reveals himself. But faith is not an isolated act. No one can believe alone, just as no one can live alone. You have not given yourself faith as you have not given yourself life. The believer has received faith from others and should hand it on to others. Our love for Jesus and for our neighbour impels us to speak to others about our faith. Each believer is thus a link in the great chain of believers. I cannot believe without being carried by the faith of others, and by my faith I help support others in the faith.

1992. "JUSTIFICATION has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. JUSTIFICATION is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:[Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1529.] But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.[Rom 3:21-26 .] "

1993. "JUSTIFICATION establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent: When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.[Council of Trent (1547): DS 1525.] "

There are many, many more explanations on grace and justification. The Sacraments are outward signs of our communion in the body of Christ:

739. "Because the Holy Spirit is the anointing of Christ, it is Christ who, as the head of the Body, pours out the Spirit among his members to nourish, heal, and organize them in their mutual functions, to give them life, send them to bear witness, and associate them to his self-offering to the Father and to his intercession for the whole world. Through the Church's SACRAMENTS, Christ communicates his Holy and sanctifying Spirit to the members of his Body. (This will be the topic of Part Two of the Catechism.) "

774. "The Greek word mysterion was translated into Latin by two terms: mystenum and sacramentum. In later usage the term sacramentum emphasizes the visible sign of the hidden reality of salvation which was indicated by the term mystenum. In this sense, Christ himself is the mystery of salvation: 'For there is no other mystery of God, except Christ.'[St. Augustine, Ep. 187,11,34: PL 33, 846.] The saving work of his holy and sanctifying humanity is the sacrament of salvation, which is revealed and active in the Church's SACRAMENTS (which the Eastern Churches also call 'the holy mysteries'). The seven SACRAMENTS are the signs and instruments by which the Holy Spirit spreads the grace of Christ the head throughout the Church which is his Body. The Church, then, both contains and communicates the invisible grace she signifies. It is in this analogical sense, that the Church is called a 'sacrament.'"

There are many, many more explanations in different contexts and in explaning each of the seven sacraments. But to summarize, we are justified by the grace of God, and sacraments are the outward signs of God's grace. No man instituted the sacraments, but Jesus Christ as a means of conveying grace and working grace within us. But we are participants in this because we have the free will to accept or reject the gift of grace God has freely given us.

God bless.

747 posted on 10/11/2002 11:14:58 AM PDT by Gophack
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