I was referring to all posts. See post # 532.
We have the scripture because of the Holy Spirit
Shall I be sarcastic and ask if it fell from Heaven? Trick question: Who wrote the Gospel of St. Matthew? This far in the thread and you still want to pretend that the Catholic Church doesn't believe this when She was the first to proclaim it? C'mon!
Of course the Holy Spirit is the principle author of the entire Canon of Holy Scripture. Through Divine Inspiration, God made use of His creatures that He chose, men (and at least one woman known in one instance), respecting and using and "building on" their natural abilities and active compliance in freedom, to write the Scriptures. All this done in the context and for the people in a hierarchical community - first Israel, then bursting to all mankind i.e. Catholic = "according to the all" "universal" Church = "called from". The same Spirit guided the Church to recognize which Books were, and which were not, inspired by Him so that She could infallibly determine the Canon = "rule" "list". He also continues to guide Her in correctly interpreting those same Scriptures. The Church, indeed, venerates them, showing Her dependence on them.
...most Catholics have no opportunity to receive the gift of faith.
Really? Says who? I take it this is your personal opinion?
The brief readings and the ten minute sermons are not the "highlight" so they are only half heard..(ask any Priest how many can tell him on Tuesday what Sundays read was)
Personal opinions again? Or am I to understand that these are official teachings or positions of your Church?
Now scripture does not say Faith comes by preaching the word it says it comes by the word.
Scripture says a whole lot of things about Faith with many, many "quotes" to choose from - actually, we're forced to choose them all. Catholics tend to read and interpret the Bible as a whole, not as 20 or so different "quotes" or misquotes, as the case may be. Perhaps a fuller context of what St. Paul says will help. This from the RSV starting at Romans 10:12-21:
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. 13 For, "every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved." 14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel; for Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ. 18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have; for "Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world." 19 Again I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, "I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry." 20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, "I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me." 21 But of Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people."
This version does have "preaching" in it and mentions Christ and not "word". I don't know what version of translation of the Bible you are using, but the RSV, which is used by Catholics and Protestants (it's a revision of the Authorized "King James" Version) alike and considered to be one of the better English translations, is above. I think it pretty much states what I thought it stated in my original post. There's a "chain" reaction, if you will, of where Faith "comes" from. Look at the translation you provided. Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing... Well, which is it? Hearing or the "word". I guess it's all so much useless quibbling. Faith comes ultimately from God through preachers who are sent to preach Christ to those who will hear. Fair enough?
But concentrate on that word "word" for a moment. Isn't St. Paul trying to get across that Christ needs to be preached throughout this Epistle and his others? Are you strictly interpreting it to mean "the Bible"? The belief of the Catholic Church centers on Faith in Christ Jesus, preaching and hearing Him in the Word of God, found in Sacred Tradition and Holy Scripture. (Obligatory quote from St. Paul's 2nd Epistle to Thessalonika (RSV) Chapter 2 Verse 15)
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
Faith is necessary to believe..
Agreed
..but the Grace to be saved is in the preaching of the word
Well there is more to Grace than that. It is sort of following your path used in the whole Faith issue. I don't disagree with this though, except in it's limiting consideration of the totality of Grace. Read through all the passages in Scripture concerning Grace.
So the reading of scripture and a clear presentation of it in preaching is Gods plan...not mine...not Calvinists or Arminians ..Gods plan
Well, Okay, I guess, as a general statement. Generally, the Catholic Church refers to God's plan as the totality of Salvation History, with Christ on the Cross at it's center. It is obviously recorded in Holy Scripture and the Church has always read and preached it from the Scriptures. Needless to say, if your statement indicates that one can merely go off by oneself and read the Bible alone divorced from the Church, we disagree. Those "sent" to "preach" with the authority of Christ, do so in the context of His Church which He founded - as recorded in the Scriptures, as per God's Plan. God's Plan is much wider than you state. What about the many people throughout history who could not read Scripture because they were illiterate or didn't have access to Scripture? Printing and mass production of reading materials was invented only what, 500?, 600 years ago? Many of these people had access to it and had Christ preached to them by His Church!
The Catholic Church has placed the means of Faith and of grace on the bottom of the list of spiritual importance.
BALONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Does not even deserve a response)
The fact that there are Catholics saved every day proves the sovereignity of God .
The fact that anybody can be saved is by the Goodness and Grace of God. Do you have some "inner tract" to God that the rest of us do not that allows you to know who is saved and who isn't?
...cause most are not getting it in the church...
Yea, whatever........
Well, wait a minute, I'll take you seriously for a bit. In today's society, particularly the "first-world" nations, there is a lot of ignorance (and indifference) of Christ - among Catholics and Protestants alike. This includes ignorance of the Holy Scriptures. It is much worse in Europe than America, but all Christians should be concerned. Church attendance is way down, and worse among the "main-line" Protestants than others. This is due to the rejection of the Gospel and love for sin, rather than the teachings of the Catholic, or other, Churches. The fact that followers of Christ are not united per the command of Christ does not help. Satan, our common enemy, appears to be winning many battles. Hopefully, in God's Wisdom, this will lead us to unity again.
WHAT!!! ...It is an INSULT to say we have the word of God because of the Holy Spirit? ..I happen to believe that is TRUE...
Shall I be sarcastic and ask if it fell from Heaven? Trick question: Who wrote the Gospel of St. Matthew?
Unbelievable...that is why the mormons love Catholics..
1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God
1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
From YOUR Pope
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
So yes the Bible has divine authority...you may go read your phone book now for inspiration...( Yes that is deserved sarcasm)