Current status of Mary [Re: Cardinal Ratzinger Does Not Foresee Approval of “Co-redemptrix”]

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

The particular judgments of a number of ignorant, hateful bigots on this thread alone will be quite interesting

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

But Jesus said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the world of God, and observe it.” Luke 11:27, 28

On the contrary? What translation did you get that out of?

Doesn't Jesus here have an opportunity to support adoration of Mary, but chooses to refute the idea instead?

Not at all. Jesus is correcting the mentality that our bloodline makes us pleasing to God. Matthew 3:9 "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham." Jesus is teaching that faith is more important than biology, which His mother would have readily agreed with. Are you trying to imply that Christ is contradicting Luke 1:48? "Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed."

[drstevej]

See post #74 for the lexical meaning of the term in Acts.

[drstevej]

grace and power are not like water and orange juice. They do not 'displace' each other. As one grows in grace, he does not become less powerful. God who is omnipotent is not therefore without grace.

[drstevej]

See post #74 for the lexical meaning of the greek term. Grace (ASV, NIV, NLT, RSV, NASV, NRSV, also Vulgate = gratia) is the meaning of the term.

[drstevej]

***She was chosen out of all creation to be the Mother of Jesus. If you just think on the magnitude of that for a moment...the mother of the Savior... a mere human - nurturer of the Divine.***

It was an awesome privledge accorded to Mary. We do not disagree in this. Where we disagree is the conclusions you draw from this that do not have any Biblical support.

It is not that I dishonor her, it is that you bestow honors on her that I can not find anywhere in the Bible.

[Wrigley]

Tell me, do people actually choose to believe this tripe?

People must, since you believe that Mary was born without Original Sin.

[theAmbassador]

I can only conclude that this forum is worthless for true discussions between the sole remaining branches of real Christianity, Orthodox and Catholic. ~ Polycarp

The Roman Catholic church can scarcely be called Christian anymore. True Christianity teaches that a true believer looks only unto Jesus, the author and finisher of true saving faith. It is fairly evident that the Catholic faith is designed to insufficiently mimic true saving faith by substituting a false faith fed Eucharist & "Veneration" of Mary as "Co-Redemptrix". This is only a sample of the counterfeit substitutes which masquerade as faith in the Catholic church. Thus, it is only by a true miracle of God that anyone in her is actually saved.

[drstevej]

"And it came about while He said these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice, and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts at which You nursed.”

But Jesus said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and observe it.” - Luke 11:27-28

Ponyexpresso: Doesn't Jesus here have an opportunity to support adoration of Mary, but chooses to refute the idea instead?

Drsj: Note this woman doesn't say anything about Mary that is not found in our New Testament. It was a very modest statement compared to the post #41 which makes many statements about Mary that have no support in the Word of God.

Jesus' words "on the contrary" [greek = menoun] in context seem to turn the focus from the woman's comment about Mary (which wasn't the subject under discussion) to the discussion at hand. He had been accused of casting out a demon by Satanic power. His rebuke [v. 23] to them was "He that is not with me is against me." I take the statement following the "on the contrary" as a strong admonition to the woman and the crowd [v. 28] to keep their focus on obedience to the Word of God.

My concern with the supra-biblical adoration of Mary today is, in part, that it diverts attention from adoration of the Son of God. Additionally, it presents as true many statements about Mary that go beyond the plain teaching of the Word of God.

WWMT? (What Would Mary Think?)

[Desdemona]

But Jesus said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and observe it.” - Luke 11:27-28

Ummm...my translation says "...hear the Word of God and keep it."

Mary most definitely did that.

[Desdemona]

The Roman Catholic church can scarcely be called Christian anymore.

Living a Christian life means living as Christ would and following his guidelines for living. That is what we are taught. Plain and simple. That's what Mary and the saints did. I don't know how anyone can call active members of the St. Vincent de Paul Society anything but Christian. Talk about dedication to the poor and needy.

Our lives are centered around Christ. Of all the feasts in the church the most important is Easter followed by Pentecost, and from there it's like Corpus Christi, the Ascension, Christ the King, the order is meaningless at that point...Christmas and All Saints come after these. How many of those are not Christ centered? All Saints is in honor of those who modeled their lives according the Christ's teaching.

[Desdemona]

People must, since you believe that Mary was born without Original Sin.

At the age Mary's mother was when she was conceived, it would have taken some help - and fertility clinics sisn't exist then.

[Desdemona]

sisn't=didn't

the coffee hasn't hit my fingers yet.

[drstevej]

fulassw guard, keep under guard; keep, obey, follow; keep safe, protect, defend; midd. guard against, avoid; abstain from (food offered in sacrifice to idols); keep, obey (Mk 10.20)

***Mary most definitely did that.***

I agree, Mary was a godly woman. But that is not the point of the passage or Jesus wouldn't have used the strong contrastive word menoun (on the contrary).

[Polycarp]

Glad you're paying attention. There is hope for you still.

[Desdemona]

Read in context, I think this line has less to to with Mary and more to do with making the point that one has to live without sin. That's what the previous eight verses say. Someone in in the crowd honors Jesus' mother, relatively out of context, and he tells the crowd to live by God's word.

Have any passages where Jesus dishonors his mother? She was his biggest supporter.

[Irisshlass]

It is not that I dishonor her, it is that you bestow honors on her that I can not find anywhere in the Bible.

Blessed in the dictionary means Holy, held in Veneration, Revered.

[drstevej]

***Have any passages where Jesus dishonors his mother?***
Of course not.

[Irisshlass]

Info for you...Luther accepted Mary's Immaculate Conception before the church claimed as dogma in 1854.

It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).