[RnMomof7]

There has been alot of discussion on being to harsh.

Now it seems to me the early church said what need to be said without concern for peoples feelings.That led to a great revile.Has God changed? Has the gospel changed? Was Jesus a hell and Brim stone preacher?

[RnMomof7]

I think we live in a PC world in a PC time and the defense of the faith is a lost art...this is a BUMP

[RnMomof7]

revival  ..boy its late

[PFKEY]

There are certain subjects that some preachers won't preach on.

I believe this is all too common these days. When I hear or see a commercial or sign for a church and the prevailing messege is something along the lines 'a personal relationship' it strikes me as one of those feel good places.

Never a sermon on sin just have a relationship and feel good. Plus, look at all this cool recreational stuff we got. This nice new gym and this wonderful fellowship center with a kitchen and games.

Too often churches just focus on numbers. I got 2000 in my congregation therefore we must be doing things right.

[sola gracia]

Was Jesus a hell and Brim stone preacher?

Not to be picky but I come from the South. That should be "hell fire and brim stone preacher." Thanks.

[Claud]

"This is a hard saying, who can listen to it?" —the crowd, John 6:61.

This is indeed an IMMENSE problem today. My fiancee is substitute teaching at a Catholic high school...the kids told her: "Religion class is so boring! They say the same thing over and over again!"

She agreed with them, and told them the only thing they teach nowadays is to be good and "Jesus loves you no matter what."

To which they responded "Yeah! That's EXACTLY what they say!"

It breaks my heart for these poor kids. Instead of being raised to be good Christians, they are all apostates in training.

[xzins]

This is a self-justification piece for the abusive.

Is there a difference between abuse and "speaking hard truth." You bet there is!

1. Knowing the heart. The preacher is NOT the Lord Jesus. He does not know the heart as Jesus did. Preachers/Pastors are human, they can be wrong about their impressions, and the honorable ones admit that.

2. The definition of Abuse.

....a. Webster definition: language that condemns or vilifies unjustly, intemperately, and angrily ; physical maltreatment

....b. Definition in Christian Counseling: victimization and/or manipulation of others through verbal, emotional, sexual, or physical attacks on the person or the person's essential identity.

....c. Medical Definition: 1. Improper treatment or use; 2. Physical ill treatment; injury. 3. Vituperative words; coarse, insulting speech; abusive language; virulent condemnation; reviling. 4. Violation; rape; as, abuse of a female child. 5. Abuse, Invective. Abuse is generally prompted by anger, and vented in harsh and unseemly words. It is more personal and coarse than invective. Abuse generally takes place in private quarrels; invective in writing or public discussions.

The relevant questions:

1. Was it possible for Jesus to abuse?
2. Is it possible for human pastors/preachers/priests and other religious persons to abuse?
3. If possible for religious humans, how is it (a) recognized, (b) opposed, (c) treated?
4. How does one heal the victims of religious physical, sexual, emotional, and verbal abuse?

[IGNATIUS]

Re: "Hellfire and Brimstone" preaching.When feeling the need for some of that---I ponder fourth century St.Ephrem(Ephraim)--his Spiritual Psalter of (several hundred) prayers written somewhat before the NT canon was put together.

I will not cease to praise Thee,O our Lord.Ceaselessly will I sing of Thy glory,that Thy truth may not condemn me. I know the extent of my guilt,that if Thou dost punish me according to my sins my inheritance will be gehenna.Then all hope will be lost.Then my prayer will be silenced.Have mercy on me therefore, and forgive me my debts.

I slipped and fell into sin.Extend to me Thy right hand and I will arise,like the harlot in Simon's house,like the thief on the cross.Have mercy on me,Thou who art kindhearted to sinners.

[RochesterFan]

Interesting article. Above all, preaching must be truthful and Biblical. One does not distort the message of God to make it less offensive. Paul wrote:

but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [1 Cor 1:23-24, NAS95]

That said, Paul also wrote:

The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.[ 2: Ti 2:24-26, NAS95]

So I conclude that we need to be careful to distinguish between an inherently offensive message and an arrogant messenger...

[ponyespresso]

Is there a place for severe words in preaching? Jesus thought there was; He said, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" (Matthew 23:33). Read Matthew 23 and see how many times Jesus called His hearers "hypocrites". He never held back to spare the feelings of his listeners. On another occasion, Christ said, "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition," and then tells them that their worship is rendered in vain (Mark 7:9).

Stephen evidently believed in severe words, too. He said, "Ye stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do you" (Acts 7:51).

I think it is hugely important to look not only at the words that Jesus and the others were speaking, but to whom they were speaking them to. On the occasions you describe Jesus was talking specifically about the Scribes and Pharisees, not all of the crowds that had gathered around Him. Stephen was speaking before the Council of the Sanhedrin, again not before the general masses. Except for the awkward exchange that Jesus has with the Syrophoenician woman in Mark 7:24-30, Jesus saved His harsh words for those in power, not usually for the guy in the street, and certainly not for those who came to Him for healing or deliverance. Even the words “Sell everything you have and give it to the poor” (try preaching on THAT verse) that Jesus said to the rich, young ruler, Mark writes that Jesus said that after looking at him and feeling a love for him (Mark 10:20) so we know that Jesus did not speak these words out of disdain or frustration, but from love.

There has been alot of discussion on being to harsh.

When you talk about people being “harsh” here on FR, aren’t you really talking about people being rude, dismissive and condescending?

There is one manner of being "harsh", which means speaking truth and holyness against the tide of our current culture immersed in lies and evil. This is the harshness of Scripture. It is quite another to manner of being "harsh" as merely being caustic, nasty and dishonorable. This, usually, is the harshness of FR.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

There is a big difference between hard preaching, which I am all for, and hatefulness, insults, disrespect, and cruelty, which is what is mostly going on now a days in this forum!

Becky

[wai-ming]

Very interesting article. Thanks for posting.

Give me some of that old time religion.

Those who say that Christianity never changes, would do well to compare the "hellfire and brimstone" sermons of the past centuries to the watered-down, anything-goes stuff that passes for religion in some of the churches of the 21st.

[dadwags]

Thanks for the heads up, Mom .
I think that the whole society has gotten too PC, except when it comes to knocking Christians,and more so, Catholics .
But, that goes with the territory . We were promised persecution .
I think the Preachers need to go back to the "hard preaching" , but some groups don't want to look "rigid" or "homophobic", or whatever .

[George W. Bush]

From the article: There are people in the church who whine and grumble about how hard some gospel preachers preach.

Huh? I haven't heard a "hard" sermon since I was a boy attending a fundamentalist church. And most of that was cheap shots at Rome and not even well-articulated.

Just where in the dickens are all these tough gospel preachers at anyway?

Of course, maybe I just don't notice. I tend to appreciate when a preacher has the courage to tell anyone they might be committing a sin. I have a certain appreciation for when the preacher is brave enough to deliver a sermon on particular sins without regard for anyone present who is in those sins. I find it especially instructive and worth hearing if he preaches against sins that I am struggling with. Maybe I'm backward but I thought that was a principal reason to attend church along with worship and prayer and fellowship.

I wouldn't care to have personal accusations of sin levelled against individuals in a service but then I've never seen such a thing happen. Other than that, preachers should regularly preach against sin. In any sizable church, you're going to have people quietly struggling with all sorts of sin or ignoring their sins. The preacher's job is to give them a general wakeup call not to be complacent about the roots of sin in their lives, to warn them how those little sins grow into big ones. It's not a popular job but it is necessary.