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To: RnMomof7
You think sin is CONTRARY to huimans nature??

Yes in that we were made in God's image. We suffer from the consequences of the division incurred as a result of original sin, but we do not bear the guilt.

We were not that heavily influenced by Augustine, if at all. We see him as a western saint.

Here is a blurb from The Orthodox Church -

"The image of God is distorted by sin but never destroyed...and because we still retain the image of God we still retain free will, although sin restricts its scope....Orthodoxy repudiates any interpretation of the fall which allows no room for human freedom....

"But although Orthodox maintain that humans after the fall still posessed free will and were still capable of good actions, they agree with the west in believing that sin had set up a barrier which humanity by its own efforts could never break down. Sin blocked the path to union with God. Since we could not come to God, He came to us."

33 posted on 09/15/2002 7:34:26 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
I'll provide a simple testimony regarding old sin nature.

I can find myself having repented my sins, desiring to remain holy and faithful to Him in ALL things, even in fasting and prayer, and yet out of the blue I find myself allowing even a minutia of an enormous sin into myself.

I can even repeat this effort and find the sin to reeappear, perhaps as another type of sin.

And what if I am successful at resisting sin over a period of practice? Am I then to claim I have become more holy because of my own good works or efforts in practice? We are not saved by our works lest any man should boast, yet I still am cognizant that after a period of being holy, I will find myself to have sinned again.

The best way I can describe my predicament is that even though I have placed faith in Him, and struggle to resist temptation successfully, I still bumble onto cognition that I later have sinned.

Trutfully, I must admit, that my character might indeed seek to remain in Him, yet I still possess a character, quite discernable from Christ, wherein I have some sort of tendancy to sin, or if you will, a nature. A nature to sin is a very nice concise manner to describe this miserable predicament I find myself. I grant that my only salvation from that predicament is first through my Lord and Savior Christ, Jesus, and secondly I look forward to that day when our hearts and minds are rewritten to follow His will.

In a nutshell, I'm not offended when the old sin nature is mentioned, because I've found the observation to be very true. Only through Him by His plan are we able to resist the temptation completely, by His will.

35 posted on 09/15/2002 8:26:06 AM PDT by Cvengr
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To: MarMema; drstevej
Yes in that we were made in God's image. We suffer from the consequences of the division incurred as a result of original sin, but we do not bear the guilt.

Ahhhh but are we ??? Something VERY serious happened it Eden..it was not a bump in the road...Adam was created in the image of God...but what does scripture say of us??

Gen 5:3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Notice the children of Adam (us) were made not after the image of the Father from that day forward we were after the image of man .

Man had fallen..man had lost his innocence, man was seperated from God and unable to do ANYTHING pleasing to God ...and so scripture asks us

Job 14:4   Who can bring a clean [thing] out of an unclean? not one.

David knew

  Psa 51:5   Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Look to see Adams reaction to God after he sinned...

    Gen 3:8   And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
     Gen 3:9   And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou?
     Gen 3:10   And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself.

Adam ,that had walked with God in the garden..that had PERFECT fellowship with Him now hid from God...Man has hid from God from that time forward.....man is out of relationship with God..that is the effect of the original sin.

All men now run from God, men love sin and run from God

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
    Rom 3:12   They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Jesus put it very plainly

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

If it were not so..if we did not need to have that relationship restored we would not have needed a savior

....Christ had to come to reconcile us back to the Father...we needed to be born again ,we needed a new heart ..

    Eph 2:13   But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
     Eph 2:14   For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
     Eph 2:15   Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
     Eph 2:16   And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
     Eph 2:17   And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.   
  Eph 2:18   For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
     Eph 2:19   Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

36 posted on 09/15/2002 11:03:49 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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