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To: peter the great; fortheDeclaration; Hank Kerchief; computerjunkie; MarMema; Utah Girl
I am a lurker who likes to inquire about certain beliefs set in stone, but not necessary a Bible backed concept! I think this chapter gives a good example of FREE WILL and that we are not under the condamnation of the fall of Adam! Ezekiel 18

Individual Retribution
18:1 The word of the Lord came to me:

18:2 “What do you mean by quoting this proverb concerning the land of Israel, “‘The fathers eat sour grapes And the children’s teeth are dull?’

18:3 “As I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will not use this proverb in Israel any more!

18:4 All lives are mine—the life of the father and the life of the son. The one who sins will die.

18:5 “If a man is righteous, and carries out justice and righteousness—

18:6 if he does not eat pagan sacrifices on the mountains and does not petition the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor’s wife, does not approach a woman to have sexual relations with her while she is having her period,

18:7 does not oppress anyone, but gives the debtor back his pledge, does not commit robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and clothes the naked,

18:8 does not lend at usury nor take interest, but refrains from wrongdoing, carries out true justice between men,

18:9 obeys my statutes and guards my judgments so as to deal faithfully—that man is righteous; he will certainly live, declares the Sovereign Lord.

18:10 “If such a man has a violent son who sheds blood, and does any of these things to a fellow Israelite,

18:11 (though the father did not do any of them), who ate pagan sacrifices on the mountains, defiled his neighbor’s wife,

18:12 oppressed the poor and the needy, committed robbery, did not give back a pledge, petitioned the idols, performed abominable acts,

18:13 loaned money at usury and took interest, will he live? He will not! Because he has done all these abominable deeds he will certainly die—he will bear the responsibility for his own death.

18:14 “But if he in turn has a son who observed all the sins of his father that he committed; and when he saw them he did not do likewise—

18:15 he did not eat pagan sacrifices on the mountains, did not petition the idols of the house of Israel, did not defile his neighbor’s wife,

18:16 did not oppress nor take a pledge, did not commit robbery, gave his food to the hungry, and clothed the naked,

18:17 refrained from iniquity, did not take usury and interest, carried out my laws and obeyed my decrees—he will not die because of his father’s iniquity; he will surely live.

18:18 As for the father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother, and did what was not good among his people, he will die for his iniquity.

18:19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not suffer his father’s punishment?’ When the son carries out justice and righteousness, and guards all my decrees and does them, he will certainly live.

18:20 The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer his father’s punishment, and the father will not suffer his son’s punishment; the righteousness of the righteous person will be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked person will be his own.

18:21 “But if the wicked man turns from all the sin he has committed and keeps all my statutes and carries out justice and righteousness, he will certainly live; he will not die.

18:22 None of the transgressions he has committed will be remembered against him; because of the righteousness he has done, he will live.

18:23 Do I delight in the death of the wicked, declares the Sovereign Lord, and not prefer that he turn from his wicked conduct and live?

18:24 “But if the righteous man turns from his righteousness and practices iniquity according to all the abominable practices the wicked carry out, will he live? All the righteous things he has done will not be remembered; because of the treachery he has committed and the sin he has committed, he will die.

18:25 “Yet you say, ‘The Lord’s conduct is not just.’ Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my conduct not just? Is it not your conduct that is not just?

18:26 When a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he will die for it; because of the iniquity he committed he will die.

18:27 When a wicked man turns from the wickedness he has done and carries out justice and righteousness, he will preserve his life.

18:28 Because he considered and turned from all the transgressions he had done; he will certainly live, he will not die.

18:29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The Lord’s conduct is not just.’ Is my conduct not just, O house of Israel? Is it not your conduct that is not just?

18:30 “Therefore I will judge each person according to his conduct, O house of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and turn from all your transgressions; then iniquity will not be a stumbling block for you.

18:31 Get rid of all your transgressions you have committed and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?

18:32 For I take no delight in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!

Reading this gives a bible based to see that the Lord is not indifferent to his children nor cursed them before birth! As witness in 18:32 For I take no delight in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!

For in this chaper one witness FREEWILL, CHARITY, WORKS, RESPONDSIBILITY FOR ONE OWN SINS AND NOT OF THE FATHERS.

100 posted on 09/20/2002 10:18:40 AM PDT by Itsfreewill
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To: Itsfreewill
That is right!

"A son will not suffer his father’s punishment..." is a principle in Scripture:

Deut. 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

2 Chron. 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.

Eze. 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

So the Calvinists not only teach that God violates His own principle, but that men bear the iniquity, not just of their father, but of their great, great, great .... grandfather, Adam.

Hank

101 posted on 09/20/2002 12:37:37 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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