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To: nate4one
For the sake of argument, I will grant the dispensationalist her or his literal interpretation of their 'rapture' passages. However, they cannot escape the time limitations of the N.T. that the complex of events Jesus spoke of in his Olivet Discourse, that the writers of the N.T. weave into their writings regarding the parousia - 'soon' 'at the door' 'at hand' 'about to appear' and so forth.

What I consider an intriguing possibility is a 'rapture' similiar to what many evangelicals expect to occur today having taken place sometime between AD 67 & AD 70. Their is an awfully odd silence in the writings of the Apostles,etc. re: Christian history/teaching between roughly AD 70 and AD 150 (it took about another 70 or 80 years for those Christians who were not 'watchful' or 'wise' to gather themselves and sally forth again to the pages of history. It would also be in that era that the idea of a delayed parousia arose. That a 'rapture' occurred concurrently with the parousia and the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 would explain the dangling ending to Mark, the abrupt end in Acts (what happens next?), the sudden disappearance in the late 60's (67 to 70) of many of the Apostles.

Apart from that, I would interpret the rapture as simply a reference to the gathering of the saints to be with Christ at death. But, it seems more to refer, again, back to the first century and the translation from the Old Covenant to the Spiritual Realities of the New Covenant.

1,976 posted on 10/01/2002 8:08:56 AM PDT by PresbyRev
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To: PresbyRev
Their is an awfully odd silence in the writings of the Apostles,etc. re: Christian history/teaching between roughly AD 70 and AD 150 (it took about another 70 or 80 years for those Christians who were not 'watchful' or 'wise' to gather themselves and sally forth again to the pages of history.

I have entertained this myself with an old friend from here named Vmatt. He is convinced that is the case.
But again I reference all the warnings of Christ and the Apostles to watch. The fact that they were to be caught up sort of goes against the warnings to flee and watch UNLESS to be "caught up" at the end of the tribulation, or the 7th trumpet (the last trumpet, concur with Post-tribs), they had to be faithful to those warnings so as not to die in the war or for the wrong cause.

But, it seems more to refer, again, back to the first century and the translation from the Old Covenant to the Spiritual Realities of the New Covenant.

And the theory I hold more is that of the meaning of "the air."
ajhvr
from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow)
Definition 1. the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air

This hints to a presence right here on our plane.
I also want to rebutt the "with THEM in the clouds..."
I am of the opinion it should say "with HIM in the clouds..."
The reason I believe this, and it is confirmed by strongs
aujtovß from the particle au [perhaps akin to the base of (109) through the idea of a baffling wind] (backward)
1. himself, herself, themselves, itself.

is because it emphasises our being with Him 3 times (very trendy in scripture.
Read as a whole:

1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with Him[aujtovß] (1 time)
in the clouds [akin to the shikinah cloud that lead them out of egypt], to meet the Lord in the air(2 times):
and so shall we ever be with the Lord (3 times).

It maybe coonfirms the meaning of Revelation 21 when He says He will dwell "with them" forever.

21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men (1 time),
and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people (2 times),
and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (3 times).

Seems consistant with the ideas of the New Jerusalem, without throwing a loop into the warnings of Christ and the Apostle.
And the lack of recorded history could be due to the flight away from Jerusalem and their homes, and they then had to restart their lives, find their homes and raise their families as before. More interested in their lives free from the Old Covenant, and less interested with recording their lives afterward.
Remember, there was no need for writing with everything being accomplished. Now it was time to finally "LIVE!!"
1,977 posted on 10/01/2002 9:22:53 AM PDT by nate4one
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