[xzins]

Hey doc YOU are teaching the Rominist position...not xzins...

Doc says that the "majority position of the early church" is of no importance. The illogic of that statement is underwhelming.

Justin Martyr lived in Samaria at the turn of the 1st century. He was taught by those who were taught by the apostles. He's ALWAYS been considered a great apologist of the Christian faith and he's never been accused of heresy. He says that John taught an earthly 1000 year reign before the consummation of all things.

Premillennialism goes back to the foundation of the church. Anyone who says otherwise simply ignores facts because they are promoting an agenda.

[the_doc]

Doc says that the "majority position of the early church" is of no importance.

Another lie from the Methodist minister.

(Look, I would call it a "misrepresentation" or maybe even just a misunderstanding, but the truth is, you misstate our positions all the time. Alas, almost ALL of the premills do this, just as the Arminians misstate the Calvinists' positions every time we turn around.)

The illogic of that statement is underwhelming.

You sure blew that joke. Read your statement again.

[fortheDeclaration]

The most striking point in the eschatology of the anteNicene age is the prominant chiliasm, or millennarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before the general resurrection and judgement. It was indeed not the doctrine of the church embodied in any creed or form of devotion, but a widely current opinion of distinquished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, Lactantius, while Caius, Origen, Dionysius the Great, Eusebius (as afterwards Jerome and Augustine) opposed it.... But the crushing blow came from the great change in the social conditions and prospects of the church in the Nicene age. After Christianity, contrary to all expections, triumphed in the Roman Empire, was embraced by the Ceasars themselves, the millennial reign, instead of being anxiously waited and prayed for, began to be dated either from the first appearance of Christ, or from the conversion of Constantine and the downfall of paganism and to be regarded as realized in the glory of the dominant imperial state-church. Augustin, who himself had formely etertained chiliastic hopes, framed the new theory which reflected the social change and was generally accepted. (History of the Christian Church, Schaff, Vol.2, p.614,619)

In other words, the church sold her soul for a mess of pottage!