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To: ultima ratio
Part of Catholic Tradition is to be obedient to lawful authority. We also have a centralized authority that defines and protects the Faith, and regulates the corporate worship of the Church. When we lose sight of that we must descend into the mash pits of Protestant sectarian chaos. My conscience, and my Catholic faith, tells me that I must obey lawful ecclesiastical authority, unless it commands me to do something immoral.

At any rate, if you believe that the bishops in union with the Pope are capable of instituting an invalid Mass and depriving the whole Catholic Church of valid sacraments, then you obviously do not believe in the indefectability of the Church.

It’s true that the Church’s infallability doesn’t extend to pastoral matters, but its authority certainly does. Do you go to Mass on a holy day of obligation? Why? Jesus never commanded that we must attend Mass on Holy days-- the feast of the Assumption, for example. That was a pastoral decision of the Church. Why do you consider yourself bound by that decision, when at the same time you deny that the Church’s authority extends to pastoral matters?

I seems to me that others who have been arguing with you are correct. You have become a Protestant. Your complaints against the Church may be different than those of the sixteenth-century Protestants, but the principle is the same. You both believe that the Church failed in a critical aspect of its mission, so much so that you must separate yourselves from her communion and worship elsewhere, in the backwaters and caves with the rest of the “faithful remnant.” The Protestants believed that the Church had corrupted her doctrines; you believe she has corrupted her sacraments. In both cases there is a lack of faith in the indefectability of the Church.

I have to go to Mass. I will pray for you.

43 posted on 09/01/2002 9:29:06 AM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
This from the papist "first protestants" defender.
You, whose leader broke away in arrogance and pride, would now stoop to throw a stone. Pray hard and well.
47 posted on 09/01/2002 10:04:39 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: JMJ333
Again, you only get it part right. The Catholic tradition includes teachings of the doctors of the Church which have been officially approved. These include the teachings of Thomas Aquinas and Robert Bellarmine, each of whom have warned that obedience to superiors must be tempered by circumstances. We have the duty, they teach, NOT to obey commands which would harm the Church. Not even a pope may lawfully command us to do this.
51 posted on 09/01/2002 10:14:25 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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