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Not only are you distorting what I said, you are doing so deliberately. You know I have never compared the Novus Ordo to a Black Mass. I was making a point about validity. Even the Black Mass is valid. So is the Tridentine Mass. And so is the Novus Ordo. Validity therefore says nothing about whether a Mass is good or bad--that was my point. But you and your friends want to make traditionalists appear radical and extreme. Either that, or you are too dense to appreciate my point.

I have no agenda to draw people away from the Catholic Church, since I consider myself a practicing Catholic--so why would I do this? You begin and end all arguments by hurling the charge of schism. But it is not schismatic for Catholics to attend SSPX Masses and devotions. This has been settled definitively by Rome itself which not many years ago had overturned the Honolulu Bishop's excommunication of 6 Catholics who attended SSPX Masses after being warned to stay away. Bishop Ferraro like you assumed that it was schismatic to attend such Masses. But the letter from Cardinal Ratzinger's Office for the Doctrine of the Faith announced the excommunications were invalid since no acts of schism were committed by such attendance. You can't get any clearer than that. But if you and your friends on this site want to continue slandering other Catholics for attending the Mass of the Ages, be my guest.

Dear ultima ratio,

"Not only are you distorting what I said, you are doing so deliberately."

Then can you answer Catholicguy's question?

"What would be your reaction to this statement; 'Ultima and Bud oppose the normative mass just as Hitler opposed the normative mass when he was alive.'"

If not, ultima, then no one really cares about the rest of your self-justification.

"But it is not schismatic for Catholics to attend SSPX Masses and devotions."

It leads to schism. Or at least so says the Pope.

Oh, I forgot, you don't think you need to obey or believe him.

Kinda like a Protestant, huh?

"But if you and your friends on this site want to continue slandering other Catholics for attending the Mass of the Ages, be my guest."

A Mass said against the express instructions of the Supreme Pontiff, as are ALL the Masses said by the schismatic SSPX clergy, is not a Mass of the Ages. No matter how much it may resemble a licit Catholic Mass said by real Catholics.

sitetest

Here is what you wrote:

I will grant that the Novus Ordo is valid, generally speaking. But having said that, this is not saying much. A Black Mass, too, is valid, but that doesn't make it a good thing.

You lumped them together, whether you want to admit it or not. Everyone on the thread knew exactly how you meant it.

And according to my dictionary, schism is defined as “separation from a church or religious body.” If you have associated yourself with a church that has separated from the local bishop, how can that be anything but schism? And I know you have been through this before with posters like patent, polycarp, catholicguy, and sitetest so I know this isn't a new argument for you but--The SSPX teaches that sedevacantism. It is tolerated if presented as opinion, not dogma. It shouldn't be tolerated at all from a dogmatic standpoint.

What you call traditionalism is not Catholic Tradition. it Its a corruption; a departure from it..or at least in part. The real traditionalists are orthodox, so-called conservative Catholics such as myself, because we are obedient to both the pope and the actual Catholic Tradition, not the fairy-tale, distorted, self-serving, revisionist version of you schismatics or quasi-schismatics, in bondage to a sectarian mindset.