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To: yendu bwam
because we are tempted to do otherwise out of selfishness, or lust (a form of selfishness) or pride or greed

While I'm at it, let's concnetrate on the absurdities in your list of Christian sins. Selfishness -- The antithesis of Altruism, where altruism is the ethics of selflessness and that ethics behind Christianlity and all communist/fascist slave-state societies.

Lust -- My dictionary says that lust is a desire to gratify the senses and includes sexual desire. Where is there sin in that?

Pride -- There are many things that I am rightfully proud of; so please explain why that is evil.

Greed -- People that work, achieve, and prosper are not greedy; but those that covet achievement and prosperity are generally those using the term "greed."

In short -- your Christian epithet "sins" are often no more than expressions of hatred of the good for being the good.

245 posted on 09/11/2002 10:13:51 AM PDT by thinktwice
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To: thinktwice; Prysson
While I'm at it, let's concnetrate on the absurdities in your list of Christian sins. Selfishness -- The antithesis of Altruism, where altruism is the ethics of selflessness and that ethics behind Christianlity and all communist/fascist slave-state societies.

Wow, you really are confused, thinktwice. Communism was radically different from Christianity. Why? Again, because communist altruism was about doing what was best for the commune, the individual be damned (or murdered, or tortured, or not allowed to believe as he saw fit). Christianity is about improving the self (to become more like Christ), knowing that the commune will improve as well. You have a distorted view that they are alike because they both have to do with 'altruism', i.e., helping others. But communist altruism and Christian altruism are radically and totally different. Again, communism insisted on improving society by forcing people to behave in a certain way. Christianity pleads and encourages with people to behave in a certain way - but does not force them to do so. Christianity respects (and loves) the individual. Communism has no respect at all for the individual. If you can't see the difference on something so basic as that, then there's not much hope you'll understand other more fine distinctions.

248 posted on 09/11/2002 11:29:37 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: thinktwice; Prysson
Lust -- My dictionary says that lust is a desire to gratify the senses and includes sexual desire. Where is there sin in that?

Every day, millions of men lie, cheat, deceive, tell women they love them (when they do not), are committed to them (when they are not) and betray in order to get sex. In this sense, lust is sinful. Lust is also sinful in other ways, but I don't think you'll understand them. But you need to remember something!!! You and I start out with different moral axioms. There is no way to reconcile many of them. Christians believe that not only did God provide for us these moral axioms, but that they are also written deep in our hearts (as we were created by God). Finding that resonance for many is quite difficult, however.

249 posted on 09/11/2002 11:33:49 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: thinktwice; Prysson
Greed -- People that work, achieve, and prosper are not greedy; but those that covet achievement and prosperity are generally those using the term "greed."

Christ's point, oft stated, was that greed (the love of money) often obscures people's minds from doing what is good and right. And it does. Which is better in your mind - spending your next $1000 on that new audio system you really want, or using it to help someone truly in need (like a starving kid in Africa)?

250 posted on 09/11/2002 11:36:30 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: thinktwice; Prysson
In short -- your Christian epithet "sins" are often no more than expressions of hatred of the good for being the good.

Again, you're referencing your moral axioms in labeling things good and bad. You asked what Christian moral axioms were, and I told you. I'm not here to argue the relative merits of your moral axioms vs. mine. There's no way to rationally do that, without both of us agreeing to some set of intrinsic moral axioms. As an atheist, you might have any set of moral axioms - Rand's, or Stalin's, or Nietzche's, or Pol Pot's. Whatever they are, it's clear they are significantly different from mine.

251 posted on 09/11/2002 11:41:13 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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