The Theological Aesthetics of Hans Urs von Balthasar

La Salle University ^ | Joel Garver

[drstevej]

Restornu,

***Now the worst part is the person who use this type of tactic turn the example around and said one of us was accusing him of beating his wife!***

The thread was pulled where the direct accusations were made, If you did not see them your comments here are simply ill informed. If you did see them then this is deliberate deception.

Either way, your statement is false.

Restornu, I defended you against personal attack recently. In fact, I was the first to do so. You thanked me.

I now ask you to drop this topic, this metaphor/accusation, completely in any reference to me. I have told you this privately. I now tell you publically.

I do not mind personal criticism or critique of my beliefs. Accusations of criminal action followed by insinuation of such actions along repeated of linking such topics to me by you, IllBay and WhiteMountain are over the line.

So I repeat to you (collectively and individually)...

Drop this topic, this metaphor/accusation, completely in any reference to me.

--drstevej

[restornu]

Yes Steve there are many fine things you do and your Trinitaian friends do not suffer the same infliction that we LDS do. The bashing is really uncalled for if we are not in lock step with your way of believing.

There are some of you who say ULGY things you take them out of contexts and we are not supposed to not feel abused. We are forced to spend endless time and effort to restore accurracy.

Steve it had been pointed out in the past tha you as well as others were aware of the correct information and yet choose the distorted version to support your smear champaine.

***

"THE END JUSTIFY THE MEANS!"

***

To me this is a flaw on ones character to promote such things! Yes you would defend truth that were off the religion topic, defend proving you know right from wrong!

All of you know this, but because of our doctrine differs none of you will defend TRUTH when you know its been abused in the religion area, for it would look like you detracted or betrayed your doctrine instead of STANDING UP for RIGHT no matter where it exist! This the Lord would expect from all of us!

***

DISTORTION,OMITING, LYING, GAINSAYING ABOUT THE TRUTH IS STILL WRONG IN THE LORD'S EYES!

***

Do you know you can PERISH for GAINSAYING?

Jude 1
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Just remember Steve there is one infallible Judge that knows our hearts and minds this one we can't fool!

*******************************************************************************

I now ask you to drop this topic, this metaphor/accusation, completely in any reference to me. I have told you this privately. I now tell you publically.

***

If you use tactic of~ "DAMN IF YOU DO, AND DAMN IF YOU DON'T! QUESTIONS"

I will be forced to say THERE YOU GO AGAIN WITH THOSE DO YOU BEAT YOUR WIFE QUESTIONS! I do hope we understand each other!

[drstevej]

Restornu,

If in my opinion a line of propriety is crossed in your statements about me in the future I will report and let the moderator decide.

They have been fair in the past and I will respect their judgment in the future.

I wish you well personally. However, I am concerned for you spiritually and I do pray for you regularly.

Steve

[restornu]

Thank you Jerry
for your lovely
thoughts!

We had
something more
like this in mind ~

http://www.uleth.ca/~anderson/hymns/308.htm

Hava a nice day:)

[rising tide]

" The death of Gruet and Servetus were clearly intolerant by modern standards "

Steve would you say these grusome tortures and executions were clearily intolerant, hidious and evil by the standards of Christ, not just by meer modern standards?

[restornu]

Steve inspite of our differents I do too do pray and hope for you, I pray in the furture we can a void entertaining the mean spirit, and stick to learning without demeaning!

Sharon

[Wrigley]

rest, you are just plain incorrect here in your reasoning. The questions that were brought up were not even close to what you think they were. I'd drop any insinuation against drsteve.

[drstevej]

***Steve would you say these grusome tortures and executions were clearily intolerant, hidious and evil by the standards of Christ, not just by meer modern standards?***

Have said as much on other threads. As a student of Anabaptist history (e.g. van Braght, The Martyr's Mirror) I am well aware of the magnitude of the cruelties of the era when measured by the NT. Cruelty at the hands of Catholics, Lutherans, Calvinists and others. I do believe Calvin is often made the poster boy of blame and thereby receives far more condemnation than others who are guilty of similar and more extensive wrongs. I find many of the charges against him historically unfounded.

Are you willing to honestly place Calvin in historical context? Or are distortions of the record acceptable if it fits your preconceived perception of the man?

Are you a historian or an apologist?

[drstevej]

I have sought and will seek to not say anything about you personally which is untrue or demeaning. I will, however, continue to express my views about religious topics. I invite you to do the same.

This is a religion forum, Restornu.

[restornu]

have sought and will seek to not say anything about you personally which is untrue or demeaning. I will, however, continue to express my views about religious topics. I invite you to do the same.

This is a religion forum, Restornu.

***

1- have sought and will** seek to not say anything about you personally which is untrue or demeaning.

**As a child of God that so be so our goal in all our quest for TRUTH! It is the Godly thing to do!

2- I will, however, continue to express my views about religious topics. I invite you to do the same.

I can only do what my consciene dictates and I choose to walk with the Lord and not the world!

So my method will not be to distort, smear, malign, delete, omit, out right lying or "The End Justify the Means!"

What will be your guildlines Steve?

[drstevej]

Post #529 is my answer. >> ***will seek to not say anything about you personally which is untrue or demeaning. I will, however, continue to express my views about religious topics. I invite you to do the same. ***

Beyond that, I plan to be the lovable person Rev, xzins, Polycarp and wrigley Orthodox Presbyterian and others have come to appreciate. Feelings that are mutual.

[Polycarp]

Beyond that, I plan to be the lovable person Rev, xzins, Polycarp and wrigley Orthodox Presbyterian and others have come to appreciate. Feelings that are mutual.

DrSteve, I'm not going to enter this fray, except to repeat my admiration for your charitable and gentlemanly behavior on Free Republic, and let you know that though I do not desire to enter this particular debate, I am praying for you as you are obviously under nefarious attack. That, IMHO, is a good sign that you are doing the Lord's Work. BTW, any attack on the Trinity comes from demonic sources. Period. Just MHO.

[drstevej]

Thanks Polycarp. I appreciate you kind words and analysis. I appreciate especially the prayers.
Steve

[restornu]

I gather this is somekind of an oath! will seek to not say anything about you personally which is untrue or demeaning. I will, however, continue to express my views about religious topics.

Beyond that, I plan to be the lovable person Rev, xzins, Polycarp and wrigley Orthodox Presbyterian and others have come to appreciate. Feelings that are mutual.

I invite you to do the same.

******

1- will seek to not say anything about you personally which is untrue or demeaning.

SO TO ME YOU WILL NOT SAY ANYTHING THAT IS UNTRUE OR DEMEANING! CORRECT?

So this will be your guildlines Steve?
2-I will, however, continue to express my views about religious topics. SO YOU WILL PRACTICE "THE END JUSTIFY THE MEANS?" ~ which could be to distort, smear, malign, delete, omit, out right lying etc.

3- I invite you to do the same.

Now Steve are inviting me to also participate in this nefarious behavior?

SORRY NO CAN DO!

I can only do what my consciene dictates STEVE and I choose to walk with the Lord and not the world!

So my method will not be to distort, smear, malign, delete, omit, out right lying or "The End Justify the Means!"

[rising tide]

Steve asked"Are you willing to honestly place Calvin in historical context? "

RT answers:All honest persons should be willing to place Calvin in an acurate historical context.All who believe in Christ should be willing to see Calvin in relation to the teachings of Christ and his apostiles.

Steve asks"Or are distortions of the record acceptable if it fits your preconceived perception of the man?"

RT answers: No.

Steve asks"Are you a historian or an apologist?"

RT answers. I don't think I qualify as either, though I have an interest in both subjects.

[RnMomof7]

Now our doctrine is different, so when the Trinitarians go at each other they still have a common bond. When we tried to defend ourselves the trinitrarians will all gang up on us at times. We use to have a common bond with some of the trinitarian on the Freewill concept. But I guess they were so harrassed by the Predestian to disown the LDS all togather, so we were completely out of the loop!

I thought you guys believed in a trinity..

[restornu]

I thought you guys believed in a trinity

We do but you folks don't like our understanding that it is 3 individual persons of being one in mind, as you folks have 3 in one substance of one mind!

So we are odd man out to you! R7 we really don't feel welcome!

And its very hard to extend your hand, only knowing that we will have to grow a new one soon:)

[White Mountain]

Terry's #536: I thought you guys believed in a trinity..

Sharon's #537: We do ...

To me, this illustrates how words are commonly used sometimes in a way that is confusing.

Main Entry: trin·i·tar·i·an
Pronunciation: "tri-n&-'ter-E-&n
Date: 1628
1 : capitalized : of or relating to the Trinity, the doctrine of the Trinity, or adherents to that doctrine
2 : having three parts or aspects : THREEFOLD

Main Entry: Trin·i·ty
Pronunciation: 'tri-n&-tE
Etymology: Middle English trinite, from Old French trinité, from Late Latin trinitat-, trinitas state of being threefold, from Latin trinus threefold
Date: 13th century
1 : the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead according to Christian dogma
2 : not capitalized : a group of three closely related persons or things

In my book, and in agreement with the above, a Trinitarian is someone who believes that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are One God:

1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

But now someone jumps up and says, no, what the Bible says is not enough (and what the dictionary says is not enough), you have to add (despite Revelation 22:18-19! 8o) the homoousios they put in the Nicene Creed hundreds of years after the Bible, and turn the Trinity into something that cannot be understood, described, or even imagined, even though Stephen understood and described what he saw quite clearly:

Acts 7:55-56
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

They stoned him to death for saying that.

So I say, let those guys call themselves "homooousios-arians", and let Trinitarian be defined by the Word of God.

Latter-Day Saints, then, are Trinitarians, as Terry thought we were.

[drstevej]

What's the difference between asking friends to run your business for you and asking them to ruin it? The survival of your business is "only" the difference of the smallest letter of the alphabet! The survival of the gospel hinges on the "iota", the smallest letter of the Greek alphabet. Athanasius knew that the difference between "homoousios" and "homoiousios" is as unbridgeable as the difference between "run" and "ruin".

"Homo" is Greek for "same" or "one" or "identical"; "ousios" for "nature" or "being" or "substance" or "essence". Is the Son identical with the Father, possessed of the same substance as the Father? Or is the Son merely similar to the Father, only like Him? (And if only like the Father, how like: a little bit like or a lot like? And if even a lot like, is a "miss" here "as good as a mile"?)

Source.

------

***So I say, let those guys call themselves "homooousios-arians", and let Trinitarian be defined by the Word of God.***

[1] Arius rejected the term homoousios and used the term homoiousios. You have a typo here, I think.

[2] Word of God for LDS = the Bible plus LDS "Scriptures" plus whatever might be revealed next week minus what was taught by a LDS prophet that was later viewed as speculation [i.e. Adam-God nonsense].

[3] Heavenly Mother, pre-mortal spirit babies, Jesus and Lucifer as brothers, celestial plural marriage, dunking for the dead so they get a second chance to become Mormons... It's a wild ride.

[Revelation 911]

Beyond that, I plan to be the lovable person Rev, xzins, Polycarp and wrigley Orthodox Presbyterian and others have come to appreciate

dont even think of getting all squishy on me, or asking for a hug LOL