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To: P-Marlowe
It seems to me that your interpretation of absolute predestination is correct. If God knows the future then the future is fixed. You'll get no argument from me. I would even go so far as to state that God has foreordained everything that has happened or will happen.

Let's make certain that you do have my understanding of absolute predestination down correctly.

God not only "knows the future" of this timestream, He has omnitemporally foreknown all possible timestreams (an infinite number), each with different foreknown Ends (i.e., "Sodom repents" vs. "Sodom does not repent"), and God has specifically chosen to create THIS Creation/timestream (in which Sodom did not repent) rather than a differing foreknown Creation/timestream with different Ends (such as one in which Sodom would have repented).

True?? No argument??

If we can agree on that, I'll proceed to the issues of Theodicy.

70 posted on 08/07/2002 9:21:39 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Oh, I understand. I don't really agree. He has foreordained the existence that we find ourselves in. Whether or not he is responsible for all that happens or whether he merely allows what happens is the mystery.

Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Is God pleased at the suffering of starving children? Does God actually starve the children so that his purposes will be fulfilled? Or is this something He would prefer did not happen?

76 posted on 08/07/2002 9:31:51 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
God not only "knows the future" of this timestream, He has omnitemporally foreknown all possible timestreams (an infinite number), each with different foreknown Ends (i.e., "Sodom repents" vs. "Sodom does not repent"), and God has specifically chosen to create THIS Creation/timestream (in which Sodom did not repent) rather than a differing foreknown Creation/timestream with different Ends (such as one in which Sodom would have repented).

I'm afraid you've never convinced me of this concept.

I think deducing the nature of God is inherently impossible for creatures like ourselves. We can only observe and understand His revelation of Himself to us.

I suppose that God does not really have an imagination in the same way as humans do. Just as He does not possess the ability to lie as humans and many animals obviously have.

My conception of God is perhaps far more single-minded and directly purposeful of certain ends He has decreed. And no human matters a fig in His ultimate ends except inasmuch as they will fulfill His Purpose and the unity of purpose in His creation. I'm sure that is vague and somewhat poetic. It's simply the sense I have of His nature from scripture. I do not see any indication in scripture of God sitting about weighing many actions of one against the other. I think His purposes are very direct and inscrutable except inasmuch as they fulfill His purposes in the unfolding of His Creation.

Potter. Clay.

125 posted on 08/08/2002 7:10:57 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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