John Paul II — The Face of Love

e3mil.com ^ | 8/6/02 | James Bemis

[Loyalist]

Then again, the SSPX has only been around for 30 years. That it, or any other traditional order exists at all, is testimony to Christ's promise that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against His Church.

Once the issues surrounding juridical communion with Rome are clarified, I predict that it will eventually enjoy the esteem and influence which once were the Jesuits'.

[St.Chuck]

"Is there a blessing for the Czar?" "Yes, God bless the Czar and keep him far from us!"

LOL.You've got a thorough grasp of the situation.

[sitetest]

Dear drstevej,

Perhaps restornu has a better grasp than I do.

Some folks think I'm easily taken in. ;-)

sitetest

[drstevej]

You may be both right!

-=-=-=-
"If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?" - George Carlin

[ultima ratio]

Talking about the Pope's apostasy: see the post on Assisi II put up by Narses. It doesn't bother you your pope prays with witchdoctors and voodoo priests? If not, it should. Joke: Is the Pope Catholic? Answer: Not necessarily.

[St.Chuck]

The animus you show toward traditional Catholics is nothing short of amazing.

I don't think I have displayed any more animus for the SSPX than you have for the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and Her pope that the Holy Spirit selected to guide Her. The fact is, that it has been your calumnies that begat these exchanges. No one has begun a thread hailing the popularity and universal love for Bishop williamson, followed by me popping in to debunk his followers as sentimental groupies. You, sir, are reaping what you have sowed.

You assume to know what they believe.

I know what traditional Catholics believe. I am one. Many Catholic Freepers are. The SSPX is infamous for alienating their most natural allies with their contempt for anything associated with the pope's church. They will even label them neo-Catholics or neo cons to differentiate themselves. They love to think that they are the elite and the few who possess the truth. They come across as smug, arrogant, paranoid, insulting, demeaning, defensive, stubborn, dishonest, untrusting,hypocritical, inconsistent,conspiritorial, objectively stupid people (present company excluded, of course). I used to sympathize with their cause until I actually learned more about the history of their movement and came in contact with some of the members and was able to observe what kind of fruit was ripening. There is no doubt that a rabid hatred for the Roman church is developing in that sect. With every passing year, with every stillborn attempt at reconciliation, with every defamatory essay, pastoral letter, or sermon the recalcitrance grows more profound. I know what a traditional Catholic is and in my view the SSPX just play acts at it.

The truth is, you wish to demonize them.

The SSPX demonizes itself. If you don't want the SSPX to have a negative image you should be very, very quiet.

You and others like you spread these myths around to marginalize them--which only confirms them in their faith.

They are marginalized by their own doing. It is childish to blame others and juvenile to think that marginalization is confirmation. Sheeesh.

[St.Chuck]

You guys want to blame the bishops. I blame their boss.

I can understand that. You are biased against the pope. He didn't comply with his inferiors wishes. The SSPX was born with that enmity. It is difficult for you to see things objectively.

[St.Chuck]

It doesn't bother you your pope prays with witchdoctors and voodoo priests?

I honestly trust the pope knows what he is doing. I think the pope has been wonderful for the church as a whole. Ten years from now books will not be written condemning him for anti-semitism or personal sin. His encyclicals have been thoroughly consistent with the magesterium. The pope is older, wiser, better educated, more experienced, more traveled, and much more holy than I am. I am afraid that I am not in a position to judge the pope's motives or actions. I can only assume that he is fulfilling his duty to bring the gospel of light to the entire world and to all peoples. If his methods are unrecognizable to you as Catholic, then you should read about the early Jesuit missionaries and their methods." All things to all people." They certainly appeared unorthodox as well, but now it could be considered a part of tradition

[ultima ratio]

What a load of crap. No Pope in history has ever done what John Paul II has done and his excursions into such novel territory should trouble Catholics. That it doesn't bother you is a good indication of how much that is alien to the Catholic faith is now accepted by people like yoursel. It is a good indication of how widespread the ignorance of catechesis is. Praying besides voodoo priests and witchdoctors who pray to false gods and demons is absolutely wrong. Kissing the Koran which contains a condemnation of the Holy Trinity and is the totem of a religion committed to the destruction of Christianity is absolutely wrong. Pouring libations in the Togo Forest is absolutely wrong.

Obedience to the Pope does not deprive us of our intelligence or common sense, for heaven's sake! You ascribe infallibilty to this Pope's every statement and gesture, no matter how out of line with past magisteria they are. That is pope-worship. I don't care how lovable or admirable or wise he is, or how unwise or untraveled or blinded by celebrity you yourself are, if the Pope violates Catholic tradition to such an extent, alarm bells should be going off in your brain. The pope is not the faith!

Finally, your veiled reference to books on the subject of the supposed anti-semitism regarding of another pope is clearly a reference to the slanders charged against Pius XII, outrageous tissues of lies totally without merit. It shows you to be unknowledgeable regarding scholarship every Catholic should become acquainted with about one of the greatest popes in history, a man hailed as a hero after the war by the Jews themselves. These books by Catholic-bashers which have sprung up ever since his death are deliberate hit-jobs, designed first by the KGB, then by ex-Catholics or Jewish axe-grinders, to sully Pius' pristine reputation and were not based on anything factual. The irony is that no single individual during WWII did more to speak out against the dangers of Nazism or to rescue the Jews themselves than Pius XII.

[ultima ratio]

The SSPX was born at Econe, Switzerland, in opposition to the new religion coming out of Rome. The Pope sided with the modernists who wished to destroy traditional Catholicism and impose a modified Protestantism on the faithful. John Paul II was wrong when he ordered Archbishop Lefebvre to destroy his fratrnity to appease the French bishops who are now threatening schism. He had no authority to command something so harmful to the Church as the destruction of the traditional faith, for reasons which were political, not religious. Look around at the wreckage that has followed such destruction elsewhere, the breakdown of discipline, liturgical chaos, scandal after scandal after scandal and one crisis after another. The Archbishop was 100% right in what he did--and top canon lawyers in Rome privately acknowledge this.

[ultima ratio]

I speak the truth--and it sounds like calumny to you. It is true that Rome is nurturing a new religion that is not traditional Catholicism. It is true that this Pope has not been a good disciplinarian and has allowed things to get out of hand. It is true that he violates tradition with the novelties he imposes on the faithful. It is true that the Novus Ordo is theologically deficient and in direct opposition to Trent. All these facts are observable to any Catholic who knows the faith. You think what's going on is fine--but past popes have warned about Modernism--and this Pope has embraced it.

[american colleen]

Good morning, Gentlemen!

OK, I accidentally woke up a 1/2 hour ago and it is a bit past 5:00 AM in the east - looks like you guys recharged the batteries for a bit last night and then came back refreshed? What time is it where you are?

[ultima ratio]

About 5:20 a.m. I woke up a few hours ago and got the computer to myself. Nice and quiet around here. I liked your post on Bp. Williamson. I agree with you 100%.

[Catholicguy]

good points

[Catholicguy]

The organization has approximately 370 priests world-wide, or at least, that is what is reported at the organization's headquarters website. Imagine that! Three hundred seventy priests world-wide! In only 30+ years! Why, in another 30+ years, they'll be as big as a medium-sized religious order in the real Catholic Church!

How can that possibly be? For over a quarter of a century, I have been told by the schismatics that "we are growing by leaps and bounds." Are there any universal standards for "leaps and bounds?"

[Catholicguy]

Representatives of these false religions were invited to Assisi, not you.

I agree with you. I think the false religion of the ssspx should have been invited also :)

[Catholicguy]

Good company you are keeping.

Ahhhhh, first thing on a Saturday morning...freshly baked Donatism

[Catholicguy]

Oneiric comes from Greek oneiros, dream.

Thanks for taking the time to post that. Isn't that a GREAT word..fun to say and use

[Catholicguy]

Way to go, site

[Catholicguy]

truly said