[Catholicguy]

I'm pretty sure that carbon 14 testing a few years back was conclusive that this was not a first century cloth. That's pretty heavy evidence to counter. Scroll back and click on the link I provided and read for yourself. Dr. Michael Tite ran a scam. The cloth samples tested differed in weight from the cloth samples cut from the Shroud. It was a clear case of substituting samples taken from another source, The Cope of St. Louis. Dr. Michael Tite was advertsing worldwide for just such an article of clothing to match his results against the Shroud. He got caught. Please read the link I provided. Really, though, it isn't significant. Itis very significant and could well help another to follow Jesus The burial cloth of Jesus is not salvation and never has been. Christianity has advanced by God's power for centuries without any knowledge of where/when/how of the burial shroud. Finally, if someone wants to believe it is authentic, that's fine. We all get to choose. But, it won't make a difference in the faith or doctrine of anyone else It certainly could. There are many who do not believe Jesus existed. This could be the additional proof doubters need

[american colleen]

Thanks to both of you. I've always looked at the Shroud and the Sudarium Christi as mystical gifts left to us by our Lord, they humble me and fill me with awe (and shame and sadden me when I see His wounds), but neither are necessary for my belief in Him. I, selfishly, never looked at the Shroud or the Sudarium Christi as you both do - and you are right, they do have the ability to convert non-believers, as evidenced by your posts.

Thank you again.

[xzins]

Dr. Michael Tite ran a scam. The cloth samples tested differed in weight from the cloth samples cut from the Shroud. It was a clear case of substituting samples taken from another source, The Cope of St. Louis.

This is disappointing for a couple of reasons.

I remember when the Shroud was tested. I remember the build-up and all the speculation. I remember the church authorities being so concerned that someone would need to cut off a piece of the Shroud to perform their C-14 testing. I remember reading about the fire damage in the past. I remember reading about the repairs. This was all known stuff BEFORE the sample was taken.

What is disappointing? First, I'm disappointed that the church authorities didn't supervise, or if they did supervise, that they didn't say, "Hey, Dude, you're cutting out a swatch in a repaired portion of the cloth." I mean, they knew it then. Why didn't they say something?

So, now we hear that the guy they chose is a charlatan who had an agenda to disprove the authenticity of the relic. Please help me. Couldn't one of them have found someone reputable before letting that guy cut out that important piece of cloth? It's starting to sound like "dumb and dumber," if you ask me. But....nobody's asking me, so I'll just offer an unsolicited opinion.

It sounds like the blind leading the blind from the start of this operation to the completion.

They let a charlatan be in charge. Then they allowed the guy to cut a swatch out of a KNOWN repaired section of the cloth. Then they didn't immediately protest. I'm gonna go take rolaids, tums, and motrin all at once. I've got a headache and indigestion at the same time.

So what do we do?

Cut out another piece. Get a real unbiased source to test it. Cut it out of the right portion of the cloth. Use modern measuring techniques.

This is all too easy. But someone will say, "Oh, it's too precious to cut on again!" Sigh. It was precious the last time they let a swatch get cut out of the wrong section by a nut.

Let's do it right.

And, in the meantime, I sure hope people manage to become Christians without these results. I mean, what with all the salvific weight that theology and doctrine have placed on this cloth through the ages.