Posted on 08/03/2002 6:33:43 AM PDT by NYer
Me too..he is an abomination and a heretic..as are many that show their face on TV..
Colleen words mean things. God chose to have the NT written in Greek because it is the MOST precise language. He did that to be as clear as possible..Doctrine is important..correct doctrine saves ..incorrect does not
We argue over the meaning of words because Gods word is precious to us ..each and evey one..
We see each other as brothers and sisters.We do not doubt each others salvation or relationship with God..we do not agrue over the end only the means....
Scripture tells us to be ready with an answer..to contend for the faith
Wander in sometimes and throw your two cents in..you are always welcome girl
You need to get your facts straight
1 Timothy Chapter 2, vs 3 & 4
This is good and pleasing to God our savior, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
Because God is omniscient, he knows who will go to Heaven, but he does not will anyone to go to Hell. Therefore, by His Grace, we work out our own Salvation in fear and trembling...and we have to take care lest we fall - sounds like free will, IMO.
So you think God created human beings purely destined for Hell? Thus He is the creator of evil?
No one will be in hell that did not reject the gospel and choose to be there..
In your "theory", God must then, create unrepentant evil.
Do you believe the angels have the Grace of God?
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done [it]?
Act 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
We must consider that out of the evilk acts of men some prophecy has been fulfilled
<> I didn't say you started the calvinist exchange.<>
You came onto this thread and your Calvinist chorus chimed in amening about how Catholics don't believe thus and such and how we are superstitious and dont beleive the Bible blah, blah, blah,<>
As you always do when you join these threads, you begin with the specific content of the thread and they rapidly generalise to your laundry list of your false charges against Catholicsm. It is boring....Boring...Boring. It is always the same old stuff....<>
<> You are obsessed....This thread is yet another example of what happens far too frequently. This has degenerated into a typical Calvinist complaint-a-thon and the interesting subject matter is being ignored. <>
I call on all Catholics to quit responding to the recalcitrant Calvinists. Clearly, there is nothing to be gained. Let them have their own threads. Ignore them from now on
OK, no problem for me! Waste of time, anyway.
I am today expecting (via UPS) the "Shroud" book that NYer originally referred to early on in this thread! I can't wait! And it is my night off from work! And my husband isn't coming home for supper! And I don't have to cook! And I can go to bed early with the book! LIFE IS GOOD!
Let's say everyone becomes a Calvinist and believes in predestination. Either you're predestined to be saved or you are not and you can't do anything about it. See post #166.
Why would anyone behave ethically? Why would anyone go to church? Why wouldn't everyone simply behave in a depraved manner.
Now ask yourself this. Why do mainline Protestants reject predestination? Answer: because without free will Christianity is useless.
You can throw up all the Bible quotes you want. Until you answer this fundamental, inescapable contradiction in the doctrine of predestination then we're done talking.
If you can't see this contradiction, then you've apparently turned your brain off.
One reason, God demands it of us. And since we are saved, we do these things to praise God and give Him glory.
Why do you do these things?
As Mom has allready demonstrated, you simply don't know what you are talking about. I haven't seen such ignorance since Patriotic Teen.
"Ask yourself this: Calvinism was one of the first Protestant denominations in this country."
Why do you insist on continuing to demonstrate your ignorance. 'Calvinism' ~isn't~ a denomination! It isn't even the 'official' name for a theology. It's a common nickname. The 'official' name for the theology is 'Reformed'.
"Yet other Protestant sects quickly eclipsed Calvinism. Why? Answer: predestination is not only false doctrine, but it doesn't sell all that well."
Well, when one bases their thinking in ignorance, the rest of their thinking falls apart quite quickly.
The Puritans brought Reformed theology to this 'land'. That would be, oh, around the 1500's. They were soon followed by the Dutch Reformed who established the Reformed Church in America in the 1630's (it's currently the oldest active denomination established in this country). The ~greatest~ evangelist this country has known was George Whitefield (even according to many non-calvinists) lived in the 1700's. Calvinism was ~the~ majority position in this 'land' (by far) for nearly 350 years! So, it took 300-350 years for Calvinism to be 'eclipsed' in this country. This is quick? (It gets even worse when you consider these Calvinists who came over here so long ago were not new converts. They were immigrants to this land. Their theology was thus continuous. It was continuous back to the reformation itself.)
Furthermore, your statement seems to suggest that the validiy of a specific theology is based on the (relative) speed of which it is abandoned. Putting aside the obvious logical fallacies this incorporates, what does this suggest for O.T. Jews who -nearly overnight- rejected the God of the Bible and erected a golden calf in its place. All this was done with God himself just a few hundred feet above their camp. Wow, so much for validity of the God of the Bible -according to your thinking that is
Silly!
Jean
Lets say you admit you were wrong when you said a murder can not be the elect of God to start off with....The Bbile..the word of God says YOUR opinion is not GODS opinion. So why would I believe your faulty logic..so I will keep my bible open
Why would anyone behave ethically? Why would anyone go to church? Why wouldn't everyone simply behave in a depraved manner.
Why would someone that has repented of their sin and fallen on their face infront of God want to sin ?
Now ask yourself this. Why do mainline Protestants reject predestination? Answer: because without free will Christianity is useless.
I guess it depends whayt you mean by "Christianity " would you define what YOU mean by it?
What's with the 'NKJV' talk?
"Why would anyone behave ethically?"
Because they want to.
"Why would anyone go to church?"
Because they want to.
"Why wouldn't everyone simply behave in a depraved manner."
Because they don't want to act this way.
What you fail to understand that Predestination involves the regeneration of our hearts! Our desires have been altered. We no longer want to continue doing such things.
Now, I have a question for you. Let's consider your question. Why do not people who know they are saved (no matter what) murder, steal, commit adultry...
Let's assume for a minute that all christians are indeed saved 'no matter what'. Why does this not happen?
The sillyness of this argument is that it is nonsense. Christians ~go~ to church. Christians ~don't~ continue in their sinful ways. Your 'hypothetical' is nonsense because it doesn't remotely describe accurate events.
Now, if you could demonstrate that Christians do indeed continue in sin, you might even have a point.
Furthermore, if you could demonstrate that Christians who believe in predestination -Christians who believe that they are saved 'no matter what'- actually do continue in their sinful ways (or otherwise act as you've described), then you might have a point. That they don't act in such ways as you suggest makes your hypothetical question completely irrelevant!
Jean
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