Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Tantumergo; drstevej; RnMomof7; Mr. Thorne; restornu
It almost seems silly to give a Bible answer to the false teaching of purgatory, since the answer is so obvious. The answer is that purgatory is not taught in the Bible! Not only so, but it is contrary to the Bible's teaching about salvation. Purgatory is based on a gross misunderstanding and perversion of the Gospel. While it is true that no sin can enter into Heaven, the great Bible words defining the Gospel explain that the purgation necessary to bring the soul into Heaven has already been accomplished on the Cross.

Redemption means to be purchased from the slave market of sin by the blood of Jesus Christ. Propitiation means that the sin debt has been satisfied by the blood of Christ. Justification means the believer is declared righteousness by Almighty God because of what Jesus Christ has done for his soul.

BigMack

190 posted on 08/01/2002 8:01:31 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies ]


To: Tantumergo; drstevej; RnMomof7; Mr. Thorne; restornu
For your edification Propitiation means satisfaction; covering; the fulfillment of a demand. It refers to God's estimation of Christ's sacrifice. God is fully satisfied by what Jesus Christ did on the Cross. The penalty for His broken law and man's sin has been fully satisfied (Ro. 3:24,25; 1 Jn. 2:2; He. 2:17; Is. 5:11). The Greek word translated "propitiation" (Ro. 3:25) is also translated "mercy seat" in He. 9:5. The mercy seat perfectly covered the law which was contained in the Ark (Ex. 25:17,21). This symbolizes propitiation--Christ covering the demands of God's law. That it is the blood of Christ which put away our sins was depicted on the Day of Atonement when blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat by the high priest (Le. 16:11-17).

BigMack

191 posted on 08/01/2002 8:06:55 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies ]

To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us. Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering (Rom. 5:3-5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven. Purgatory is the final phase of Christ's applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.

The resistance to the biblical doctrine of purgatory presumes there is a contradiction between Christ's redeeming us on the cross and the process by which we are sanctified. There isn't. And a Fundamentalist cannot say that suffering in the final stage of sanctification conflicts with the sufficiency of Christ's atonement without saying that suffering in the early stages of sanctification also presents a similar conflict. Quite the reverse: Our suffering in sanctification does not take away from the cross. Rather, the cross produces our sanctification, which results in our suffering, because "[f]or the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness" (Heb. 12:11).

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. This is the purgation of purgatory.

1 Cor. 3:15 - though he will be saved, "but only" (houtos-in same manner) through fire. Man is both rewarded and saved by fire.

1 Cor. 3:15 - suffer loss = "zemiothesetai" = root word "zemioo" = also refers to punishment. This means expiation of temporal punishment.

1 Cor. 3:13 - revealing the quality of each man's work by fire and purifying him relates to his sins (not just his good works).

1 Cor. 3:17 - proves this purgation deals with punishing sin (destroying God's temple = bad works = mortal sin = death).

1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and state of mortal sin (v.17).

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

Jude 1:23 - people saved being snatched out of fire. People are already saved if in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if in hell.

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent.

Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward.

Sirach 2:5 - for gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold.

Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God's purification of the righteous at their death.
195 posted on 08/01/2002 8:49:00 PM PDT by Mr. Thorne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies ]

To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Redemption means to be purchased from the slave market of sin by the blood of Jesus Christ.

You are right that the notion of redemption means being bought back out of slavery - this was the role of the "go'el" - the kinsman redeemer who was the first born son.

However what I think is confusing many of you protestants on this thread is that you are mixing up "Objective redemption" and "Subjective redemption".

"Objective redemption" results from the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and is perfect, complete, final and can never be added to or taken away from. Consequently we can say that ALL HUMANITY has been objectively redeemed because Jesus paid the price of all sins that ever have and ever will be committed.

However, that redemption needs to be applied to each individual subjectively. This is what happens when we repent, believe and receive baptism and the remission of our sins.

"Justification means the believer is declared righteousness by Almighty God because of what Jesus Christ has done for his soul."

You are partly right here, but it is more than a mere declaration. When God declares/speaks it IS so - His Word achieves what he declares. His Word never returns to Him without bearing fruit. Consequently in baptism we receive justification which is adoption as the sons of God. We also receive perfect sanctification - being washed clean by the "Laver of regeneration" and if we died immediately after being baptised would go straight to heaven

However, I expect that you like me have resisted God's grace since being baptised and have fallen into sin, thus losing the sanctified status of a new-born son of God.

The whole issue of the purifying fire of God's love/purgatory has nothing to do with redemption or justification. It has to do with SANCTIFICATION which is the process by which we are conformed more and more to the likeness of Christ. It is only the redeemed and justified who can pass through the purifying power of God's love - IT IS NOT A SECOND CHANCE TO BE SAVED. It is the merciful love of God that deals with the effects of POST-BAPTISMAL sin which renders us unfit to enter his presence. I.E. if we build on the work of Christ(baptism) with anything less than the finest goods (sin), we will STILL be saved but only as ones who have passed through the fire.

219 posted on 08/02/2002 3:40:29 AM PDT by Tantumergo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson