POPE'S ASTONISHING POWER HAS CHANGED THE WORLD

Spirit Daily ^ | July 27, 2002 | Michael Brown

[ultima ratio]

Recite his strong points? Sure. He was directly responisble for liberating Eastern Europe from the evil empire. I read Carl Sandberg's biography and found it particularly compelling in its description of how he worked with Reagan and Reagan's cabinet--very quietly, behind the scenes. He is also a very holy prayerful man--I would say mystical. His early wish was to be a contemplative monk, a Carmelite priest. He is firm on moral principles and will not budge an inch on abortion or contraception or homosexuality. He is a brilliant phenomenologist who has written a prodigious number of encyclicals.

But he is a lousy adminsitrator. He has left appointments to others and these have led to an unusual number of corrupt episcopacies.The gay subculture has been allowed to proliferate--primarily due to this Pope's inattentiveness and naivte. But Christ warned of this. He said we should be like serpents. The children of the light have to learn from the children of darkness. In other words we have to toughen up and be realistic and at times ruthless in how we wield power. This Pope has been far too soft with apostates and perverts--and they have damaged the Church enormously and ruined many thousands of lives.

Yes, I find these World Youth bashes problematic. They are a celebration of joy, but they trivialize the faith and its difficulties. They also sanction a genre of music that is in openly hostile to reason and serenity. Why feed into such a culture? Do we assume the young will not listen unless we pander to them? Must we reverse roles and make the world's culture the model for the our own? This is an attitude that has spread from parish to parish throughout every level of the Church. It certainly smacks of pandering. The young want something more from the Church than more rock and roll and more noise and more youthful exhuberance.

[sinkspur]

They also sanction a genre of music that is in openly hostile to reason and serenity.

Gosh. I'm 51, and you're older (though you're younger) than I am.

You're a humorless young man, my friend.

[ultima ratio]

Ever hear of Mexico? Of course there are twenty million more Catholics! Mexicans have been migrating north for decades, particularly in the last thirty years. The country's population has almost doubled since 1950. As for my statistics, they are Gallup's and I got them from Traditio.com. But it's amusing to hear people like you say this, as if it weren't common knowledge among the cognicenti.

[sinkspur]

The country's population has almost doubled since 1950. As for my statistics, they are Gallup's and I got them from Traditio.com.

You're new here (at least in your latest incarnation), so you should know that if you cite statistics, the least you can do is provide a link to the site from which they came.

I'd like to see the statistics that back up your claim, but I'm not going to scrounge around looking for them.

[ultima ratio]

Before you think I mean that this country has almost doubled in its population because of migration from Mexico, let me say that was not my meaning. We all played a part.

[ultima ratio]

I will try to back up the statistics, or else avoid them. But once I get typing, the attacks start and there isn't much time to do research. But hey, believe what you want. If you want to think the country stayed put at 150,000,000 people, fine. Common sense would suggest otherwise, however. I know it's something like 250,000,000--but it is probably much higher. My point is still valid.

[ultima ratio]

What's to be humorous about? You and others have been clobbering me left and right because I point out the obvious. I'm really a funny guy with my friends and family.

[ultima ratio]

By the way, who ever told you the decline started in the fifties? That is really funny. I have to agree, you are a very funny guy.

[ultima ratio]

I did the research: I was exactly right. There are a whole lot of great polls by Gallup at this site:

www.traditio.com/tradlib/polls.txt

Bon appetit!

[NYer]

I was a seminarian myself in the 80's and met many fine devout young men. But I met weirdos as well-- too many of them. What troubled me most was the lack of faith. The Blessed Sacrament, for instance, was kept in a room in the basement. Only myself and one other guy ever made a visit.

Most of the catholics on FreeRepublic would probably consider themselves "traditionalists". We love our church, like you, and would abhor the notion that the Eucharist (the Living Presence of Christ among us) had been relegated to some obscure room in the basement of a seminary. In fact, once Siobhan reads this post, you will probably have an opportunity to meet her Irish banshee.

Ten years ago, a young couple moved into the neighborhood where I resided at the time. As it turns out, the husband, like you, had been a seminarian in the '80's. He was so scandalized by what he encountered in the seminary, that he chose the secular life. We, in this forum, have read and discussed this issue countless times. It pains us immensely to know that many good men who answered the call to serve God, were confronted with radical teachings and felt compelled to leave. Such a decision must feel as though one had to say "no" to Christ, Himself, whose service you sought through the priesthood he created at the Last Supper. To hold the Holy Father solely accountable for these events, does him a terrible disservice. While western seminaries shrank during that time frame, the catholic seminaries in Africa exploded with wonderful priests. There are other factors at work here, but it would take multiple threads to fully explore how this shift to liberal teachings occurred where it did, who abeted the process and how much of this information actually filtered back to "who" in Rome. Were I in your position, I would be equally angry.

Yes, I find these World Youth bashes problematic. They are a celebration of joy, but they trivialize the faith and its difficulties. They also sanction a genre of music that is in openly hostile to reason and serenity.

Here again, you will find that among the catholics in this forum, there are those who feel we should turn back the clock and restore the Tridentine Mass, along with Gregorian chant. I was educated by the nuns during the late '50's and the only mass then was the Tridentine format. I remember people fainting in church, after fasting from midnight, in order to receive communion. I also vividly recall the sudden changes that occurred immediately following Vatican II. The school year ended with nuns in habits. When we returned in September, we didn't recognize them in their new street clothes. Kumbaya became the song of choice at school masses. From one week to the next, altars were either turned around or new ones were brought in and slapped down in front of the old ones. Where once the host could never be touched by anyone other than the priest, suddenly they were being distributed by women with heavily perfumed fingers.

Vatican II also brought some beautiful changes. I personally thrill to watch the priest consecrate the host and would not want to return to a passive mass like the Tridentine one where I was nothing more than an observer. My personal choice for a mass format would be the one celebrated by the Franciscans on EWTN. It incorporates the best of both worlds.

As for the music ministry, my personal choice leans towards the more traditional organ and choir. Yet, I have found myself moved to tears by some of the contemporary musicians.

If you watched the Way of the Cross on EWTN the other night, you may have heard the commentator mention that the music comes from the Taize Community. Taize is a Christian, monastic community in southeastern France. Brother Roger founded Taize partly in response to the violence of WWII that he encountered. It has since become a pilgrimage site for young people mostly from Europe, however people from other continents come to Taize. At any one time there can be 200 to 2000 people visiting.

The daily routine at Taize includes three prayer or worship periods, the sharing of simple meals, Bible study led by the brothers, small group discussions, chores and times of silence. Those who take part in the life of Taize focus on simplicity, service, trust and reconciliation.

"A life of prayer is at the center of Taize," explained Brother Pedro. Many of the Taize prayers are single sentences or phrases that are sung repetitively as a way of centering and becoming open. For some it is a form of meditation, for others it is a way of listening for the Divine.

Adoramus Te Christe, et benedictimus tibit (sp?) was one of several centering prayers sung by the youth at World Youth Day. The youth choir sang songs in French, Italian, English, Spanish and Latin.

Welcome, again, to Free Republic. I believe you will find yourself in good company in this community. Before you jump to conclusions, though, and castigate the pope and church for everything you abhor, step back and take a second look, weighing one against the other. Hang around this forum long enough, and you will discover some truly beautiful and remarkable catholics. May I add you to my ping list?

Pax et Bonum

[narses]

Your posts show such wonderful charity that I want to say Thank You. You join those like patent and sitetest and polycarp who have done so much here to make thise of us who are new feel welcome. Again, thank you.

[NYer]

Bud McDuell signed up 2002-07-17

Welcome aboard, Bud, and fasten your seatbelt. You're in for an interesting journey here on this site. Let me know if you want on my ping list.

Pax et Bonum

[NYer]

thank you.

Thank you, narses, for sharing your insight and wisdom with this catholic freeper community. I am a strong believer that people can inspire each other and have found that to be very true on this forum. Perhaps like St. Francis, we can answer the call of Christ to "repair his church".

[ex-snook]

"But he has been a bad steward and a failure as a pope. "

I has also came to this conclusion but have since changed. I read an explanation from someone who appeared to be 'in the loop' in an article about the Jesuits. The point made was the Pope has a Darwinian approach and will allow various orders of Priests, Sisters, etc to die (or in effect to allow their policies and practices to kill themselves off). The faithful will survive and the others will perish in the same manner as Communist Russia.

[Siobhan]

Removing the Tabernacle to the basement is the sort of diabolical monkeying around that does bring out the banshee in me.

Perhaps "ultima ratio" will stay around long enough to prove himself, but I have no use for someone who on several threads attacks the Holy Father and who attacks me personally as well as my faith. Such a person is despicable and beneath contempt.

[ultima ratio]

Your theory is interesting and I wish I could buy it. In fact, it may well apply to the Jesuits themselves, since you mention them. It is a dying order. But the idea that the Pope is passively allowing this to happen, doesn't account for his lack of action in other spheres--his bad, even disastrous appointments. He has just appointed Kasper to the cardinalate, for instance, thus making one of the most liberal of bishops papabile. He alone has elevated an incredible number of bad bishops, far in excess of what is usual. It ought to have been clear two decades ago that he had a systemic problem, that the corruption was wider and deeper than he supposed. Catholic laymen knew about it and complained constantly to the Vatican. The Wanderer and the Remnant wrote about these things for decades. And yet it has been business as usual. When the American cardinals went to Rome, no one was asked for his resignation, no one was repremanded. There was a luncheon and some p.r. press conferences. Clearly the call to Rome was an exercise in damage control. Yet Cardinal Law is a man who had gone out of his way to effusively praise in writing a priest he knew had raped a six year old in an effort to foist him on another diocese. He had tolerated this priest's activism on behalf of NAMBLA and allowed him to ruin the lives of countless children. And so with the others. Mahoney has been protecting a slew of abusers--as many as 72 according to LA newspaper reports yesterday. There are bishops and cardinals who hit on seminarians, bishops and cardinals who pick up male prostitutes, etc., etc., and this has been happening for decades all around the globe. Yet no effort is made to clean out the seminaries which produce these perverts.

[ex-snook]

You make your point. However, I'm sure he acts on the recommendations of local ordinaries. I still like the Darwinian theory. A country will get the kind of leaders they deserve. (But about the same as we do).

[ultima ratio]

Thank you for a beautiful welcome. I will agree the pre-Conciliar Church was not perfect. It was probably not the paradise most traditionalists imagine. But it was infinitely preferable to what followed. As for my view of the Pope, I am sorry if I offend so many, but he has the power to clean house and will not use it. It is said he fears schism on the left. But I believe it is more than that. He favors liberal reform over tradition. He makes this abundantly clear in many ways. But as St. Paul said in the opening to his letter to the Galatians, "If anyone preach a gospel to you other than the gospel which you received, let him be anathema." He said that even if an angel came down from heaven and preached such a gospel, he should be outcast. Yet there are cardinals who question the Resurrection, who have doubts about the Real Presence, who wonder about Christ's divinity. Who elevated such men? Just the same, you are very kind to welcome me despite my brashness.