Posted on 07/19/2002 4:57:55 PM PDT by Polycarp
That Likoudis and Wilson are generalizing when they say that there's a sixty percent decline in mass attendance.
If butts-in-seats is a measure of anything (as they seem to imply) then we Catholics will NEVER outdo the evangelicals.
Two questions: What percentage of the population of your parish is Hispanic? How many Spanish Masses are said each Sunday?
We're a suburban parish with about 20% Hispanic but no Hispanic Masses. We've got a vibrant Tongan community here, however.
I am curious as to hoow a believing Catholic stifles his impulse to get up and bust up them bongo drums.
I have similiar questions with my RC wife, and have yet to get a sensible and satisfactory answer.
Bongos are not ipso facto a sacrilegee; but it is a triviliation; and that is just as bad as a sacrilege, imo.
hoow
I got some double vowels going on in that post
Well then, I'm going to read as fast as I can.
As soon as I see her first post, I'm gone...
patent
Did Jesus turn His back on His apostles when He shared His last meal with them? Were the liturgies in the early Church celebrated like some kind of secret ceremony?
I can't tell you how little impact the vestments have on the celebration of the Eucharist in our parish. They're plain, with crosses and bars. They're not works of art.
I just don't get the fascination at looking at someone's back for an hour.
"I think its not so much the new mass itself as the accretions, distortions, and dissent that seem to accompany it in so many places. If it weren't for Rome, we'd have inclusive language texts already."
That's a different argument than the author of the article seems to be making. It seems, upon an admittedly quick read, that the author of the review is saying that it is in the nature of the Tridentine Mass that those who desire sexual autonomy are reproached, which strongly implies the opposite is true of the Mass of Pope Paul VI. Your argument is different, and frankly, not very controversial.
Obviously, the experimenters were going to experiment on what was new. That doesn't mean that the new was inherently inferior to the old. It merely means that those who desire novelty and innovation look to what is new, not to what is old.
However, give it another generation, and "what was old is new again", and don't be surprised if some of the more aesthetically-inclined dissenters of the next generation drop their opposition to the Tridentine Mass, as they become enamored of how they could dress it up, too.
The issue is fidelity. Fidelity to the Church. Fidelity to the Magisterium. Those who are faithful celebrate the Mass of Pope Paul VI as efficaciously as those who are faithful and celebrate the Tridentine Mass.
The author of this review appears as if he is in disagreement with that.
As to not knowing that the Mass is a sacrifice, well,..., er,..., gee,..., I'm pretty sure that my own priest mentions that every Sunday, during every Mass, during the Eucharistic Prayer. No?
sitetest
Why indeed. Because the all-knowing, all powerful Bishops and priests derided us for our disobedience and lack of piety when we pointed this out.
.....while waiting for RnMom to certainly show up....
The priest was (for y'all,in times ago) turned toward God; and you looked at the priests "back." Well, now you are new and improved, and God gets to look at his a**, while the priest dialogues with the people.
Last fall, my own 9 year old son, while in the ER, was visited by a priest who I learned 2 months ago is a known pedophile. This pedophile molested an old friend of mine who I played parochial league basketball with from 5th through 8th grade. My bishop knew damn well that this SOB was a pedophile, but he was still working and was in the room with my own son.
Monday morning I'm attending a meeting with an abuse victim, his mom, my bishop, and the archabbot of the monastery where the abusive priest currently resides. I first met this victim last Sunday, at his mom's request, in a acute care psych institution, after the victim threatened suicide. I'm the only advocate he has.
He's now a drug abuser and chronic alcoholic, facing 2 years in jail for his 4th DUI.
He had a girlfriend from age 13 to 16. He was molested at 16, and the molestation included initiation into drug use.
He has been an active homosexual since the abuse.
He once also wanted to be a priest.
I need the bishop and archabbot to intercede with the local DA so this victim can receive the counseling and healing he needs instead of two years in the homosexual subculture of the local state pen.
Please forgive me, if at the present time I seem a bit surly.
I have very little patience for the predators who have institutionalized this abuse in our Church, to include such men as Bernardine and my own bishop.
And you know as well as I do that its the same homos and pederasts who are destroying the faith in the country.
Which is exactly what the article in this thread is about.
Yet you would rather insult and denigrate the poster, the reviwer, and the author, than examine the merits of the article.
Damn right I'm surly tonight.
The Church in the USA is rotten to the core, and you think its peaches and cream.
Funny you should mention that. In Catholic girls High School, our religion classes consisted of debates about abortion.
The young nun who taught the class never once said it was murder or a sin.
We were just supposed to go with our "conscience".
By the way, it isn't "attitude". At least not for me. Maybe it is for sinkspur. ;-)
What the author of the review wrote about sexual autonomy never occured to me, and upon reading it, I can't say that I even understand what he is driving at.
Your explanations help a little, at least you offer something but the bare assertion, though you seem to take a different tack than the author, since you don't seem to think the problem is inherent in the new Mass.
sitetest
You should have knon that bongo drums in the Mass was a natural progression.
The vast majority of older nuns were indeed light-hearted and kind.
Yes indeed! When I went to Mt. St. Mary's College (very liberal!) in Los Angeles about 20 years ago, I took care of about 15 - 20 retired nuns. Some were in the infirmary. They were all great, fun loving and happy. One in particular, Sr. St. John, was always playing tricks and joking with the others. But, when they were at Mass, they were very reverent and holy.
I loved that job.
I can't afford the criminal record in my profession. Otherwise...
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