Have you read Goodbye, Good Men? There are descriptions of the mockeries of the Mass that go on in some seminaries. In one instance, the celebrant of the Mass had some small pieces of the Eucharist on the paten and he proceeded to blow on the paten and send the pieces flying. I guess he didn't believe in the Real Presence. And he was training future priests!
Yes, patent. There really are Catholics who don't believe in the Real Presence. You are certainly free to remain in denial. I'm not debating the exact numbers, just facing the facts. How one prays affects how one believes. How do you explain the large drop in the number of practicing Catholics, the mass exodus of priests and nuns from religious life, and the huge drop in the numbers of seminarians following the change to the New Mass? Coincidence?
Yes, patent. There really are Catholics who don't believe in the Real Presence.I am aware there are, and that is a gross perversion of what I said.
You are certainly free to remain in denial.You set up a strawman position, one I didn’t take, and then accuse me of being in denial. I don’t see how this advances your claims.
Can you compare the statistics or not? That is my point, and one you duck by spitting sarcastic insults about how I think there aren’t any Catholics who don’t believe in the Real Presence and that I’m in denial.
Can you compare pre Novus Ordo statistics with post Novus Ordo statistics on the belief in the real presence?
I'm not debating the exact numbers, just facing the facts. How one prays affects how one believes. How do you explain the large drop in the number of practicing Catholics, the mass exodus of priests and nuns from religious life, and the huge drop in the numbers of seminarians following the change to the New Mass? Coincidence?Once you prove the same, I will try to address it. But you have only alleged one number (haven’t provided any proof of it). Even had you proven that number, you cannot claim that things have gotten worse over time by only providing a number at one point in time. That is logically false.
The very minimum is to provide two numbers, from similarly worded and taken surveys, at two different times. Most statisticians would suggest that without three such points in time, your contention is entirely unproven, and that even with three the possibility of statistical error is unreasonably high. But hey, go ahead and respond to my request for a valid comparison by another personal attack.
patent +AMDG