Mom, you have learned well.
For what it's worth, everything from here on (and from a while back, as well) is speculation...
My human mind can not grasp that something other than God could exist with no beginning
It has occurred to me that this might address the "Christ" concern. You know, the one about us not being Christian because we say Christ is the firstborn spirit of our Heavenly Father, and thus is not forever and ever. Maybe His spirit was "created" by Heavenly Father, but His "intelligence" is eternal, so He has no beginning.
Of course this would suggest that we are eternal, also, but that is fine, since we believe that we can become "God" too. Neat how that all works out in our theory.
on your theory that intelligences also must be composites assembled by layers of Heavenly Fathers, how does that "fit " into the belief that the Heavenly Father had a Heavenly Father that had a Heavenly Father ( for the assembling of the spirit)
You asked for it. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Eternal progression is the answer. Again, everybody, this is not official LDS doctrine, but the theory of T.P.Pole.
Here on earth we can participate in the creation process by having children. We create the body, and the spirit comes from Heavenly Father.
In Heaven, Heavenly Father participates in the creation process by having spirit-children. He creates the spirit, and Extra-Heavenly Father provides the intelligence.
In Extra-Heaven, Extra-Heavenly Father participates in the creation process by having intelligence-children. He creates the intelligence, and Extra-Extra-Heavenly Father provides the light.
In Extra-Extra-Heaven, Extra-Extra-Heavenly Father participates in the creation process by having light-children. He creates the light, and Extra-Extra-Extra-Heavenly Father provides the truth.
And in Extra-Extra-Extra-Heaven, Extra-Extra-Extra-Heavenly Father participates in the creation process by having truth-children. He creates the truth, and Extra-Extra-Extra-Extra-Heavenly Father provides the [OK, I've run out].
BTW, the light and truth comes from D&C 93. Verse 29 says "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be." And verse 36 says "The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth."
Onward. We say that eventually we can become a God. We also suggest that that means that we can create spirit children.
Maybe Heavenly Father is progressing, too. Maybe if He gains enough glory through His spirit children (which we just said are composed of spirit and intelligence), then He can become an Extra-Heavenly Father, and can create intelligence-children.
You see where I am going? Our Extra-Heavenly Father gains exaltation and progresses to Extra-Extra-Heavenly father and begins to create light-children.
And so forth, and so forth, for eternity.
More like multi-level marketing than I first suspected.
Then, when we gain exaltation and have spirit children, we have a world created, and send our Adam and Eve down, and there is a transgression, so we need to send our first-born spirit child down to our world to be a Savior. Our spirit children go down to the world to get the bodies that our Adam and Eve (and their children) create. Our Christ teaches that he is just doing what we would do if we were there. He also says if they see him, they have also seen us, since he is our son, after all. If they accept our Christ, and follow his example, they can become exalted. And after they are exalted, they can have spirit children, and we become Heavenly Grandparents.
Of course, by then, we may have progressed to Extra-Heavenly Parents, and are busy creating intelligences. We wouldn't see our Heavenly Father much since He might have progressed to Extra-Extra-Heavenly Father and is busy creating light-children.
Are you saying that some Heavenly Fathers functioned in a way to "birth" not spirits but intelligences?
Bingo!
One more morsel. One thing we talk about is how the true gospel is like a piano. Some churches have some of the keys. Others have others. We claim that only we have all the keys. In a sense, this is how we observe our understanding of our lives.
Other faiths have knowledge about from when we are born (on this earth) to just after we die. We have knowledge from before we were born to long after we die. Our concept of the spirit world (where we await resurrection after we die) contains a spirit paradise and a spirit prison. Remember our discussion a while back about Christ opening up spirit prison to the missionaries? Our concept of spirit paradise and spirit prison looks a little bit like the rest of the world's concept of heaven and hell. Throw in a Catholic purgatory, and you have folks moving from prison to paradise after they accept the gospel and have their temple ordinances done. Remember, we don't consider paradise to be the end. We believe that after that comes resurrection, final judgment, then assignment to a glory (or a kingdom, as in "Celestial Kingdom").
In many ways this makes it hard to discuss this with others, since they have no concept of a pre-earth life or any idea what we do after we are in heaven (other than sing praise and play harps).
Think I have rambled on enough. I'll let somebody else have the floor, now.
I don't know that I have come to terms with how this works. I am certainly open to suggestion.
Rest brought up the verse in Moses that talks about God creating the spirits of the plants and animals before placing them on the earth. That is one point.
Others pointed out verses showing animals in Heaven. That's another point.
But do animals share in the same level of expectation and exaltation that we do? I have no idea.
Almost any LDS would agree that our pets are with us in heaven. However, I don't think we fully understand what this means. If they are good animals, do they gain exaltation and get to create spirit-animals (and intelligence-animals, and light-animals, etc.)?
And what about plants? How can they be obedient? Didn't Christ curse a plant that didn't provide him fruit? Does that plant go to hell/outer darkness?
They sure didn't cover this in primary...
Journal of Discourses, Vol.8, p.35, Brigham Young, April 6, 1860 How many Gods there are, and how many places there are in their kingdoms, is not for me to say; but I can say this, which is a source of much comfort, consolation, and gratification to me: Behold the goodness, the long-suffering, the kindness, and the strong parental feeling of our Father and God in preparing the way and providing the means to save the children of men,--not alone the Latter-day Saints--not those alone who have the privilege of the first principles of the celestial law, but to save all. It is a universal salvation--a universal redemption. Do not conclude that I am a Universalist, as the term is generally understood, although that doctrine is true in part, like the doctrines or professions of all professing Christians.
BOOK OF MOSES CHAPTER 1 (June 1830)
God reveals himself to Moses—Moses transfigured—Confrontation with Satan—Many inhabited worlds seen—Worlds without number created by the Son—God’s work and glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
1 THE words of God, which he spake unto Moses at a time when Moses was caught up into an exceedingly high mountain,
2 And he saw God face to face, and he talked with him, and the glory of God was upon Moses; therefore Moses could endure his presence.
3 And God spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I am the Lord God Almighty, and Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless?
4 And, behold, thou art my son; wherefore look, and I will show thee the workmanship of mine hands; but not all, for my works are without end,</b? and also my words, for they never cease.
5 Wherefore, no man can behold all my works, except he behold all my glory; and no man can behold all my glory, and afterwards remain in the flesh on the earth.
6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.
7 And now, behold, this one thing I show unto thee, Moses, my son, for thou art in the world, and now I show it unto thee.
8 And it came to pass that Moses looked, and beheld the world upon which he was created; and Moses beheld the world and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created; of the same he greatly marveled and wondered.
9 And the presence of God withdrew from Moses, that his glory was not upon Moses; and Moses was left unto himself. And as he was left unto himself, he fell unto the earth.
Off hand my first thought would be to ask if the Heavenly Father worships the god that is above Him?
How do you deal with Isa?
Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.