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I know some people with dignity, but I know plenty without a shred of it. "Unique and intrinsic human dignity" needs to be further defined and verified if I'm going to accept it as a given starting point for our purposes.

I do not mean dignity defined by behavior. I mean life itself is indowed with intrinsic value define at conception--a topic you and I have hashed about repeatedly and have never come to an agreement on.

They don't "pine for the supernatural" but if they are in trouble, they will cry out and I'm sure they don't know to whom or to what they are crying out. They just do it because they can't do anything else and it worked once before. As for the "human soul" that's another fiction to me so I don't think I can start with you there either. What you call a "human soul pining for the supernatural" I call a Emma Bovary like yearning for Romanticism to fill the void left when learning is abandoned as useless because our minds aren't capable. This is probably why women were traditionally considered more devout. Empty brains, full hearts, so to speak.

LOL, I would feel insulted if I didn't know you better! I consider myself many things, but empty-brained isn't one of them! And I disagree with the assertion that men are less pious or devout, as the number male saints in the Catholic church is plentiful.

I have enjoyed the debate, as usual, and will see you again next round. Cheers. ;)

I just now saw your response. Naturally I'm not saying women are empty-headed, I'm saying that (and surely you aren't going to argue about this) men have historically considered women to be less logical, less intellectual, and less intelligent. They WERE, however, considered more sensitive, more spiritual, more intuitive... and if you'll look around you in church, they make up the bulk of the congregation. These two things are not unrelated to one another.

As for the special and intrinsic human dignity enshrined in the soul and endowed by The Creator, you're right, we aren't going to come to an agreement because I don't see any evidence of the dignity, the soul, or the creator. In fact, one of the reasons we never get anywhere is we can't even find a starting point to agree upon.