[RnMomof7]

Just have god close his eyes and let the world turn with no divine intervention ..that makes reading scripture of no effect..could change or fall apart tomorrow..we coulds re title the Bible " Gods Best Guess"

[winstonchurchill]

Just have god close his eyes and let the world turn with no divine intervention ..that makes reading scripture of no effect..could change or fall apart tomorrow..we coulds re title the Bible " Gods Best Guess"

That's called the 'fallacy of the false choice'. You consistently portray that one either accepts Ol' Johnny's manmade construct or 'Gee, the Bible will just be meaningless." Unfortunately, in the entire history of Chrisitanity, only the Calvinists thought it necessary to make up the double 'decree' business. The 'decree' presupposition perverts the Bible, it doesn't explain it.

It is true that there are a range of views of the nature and extent of God's 'foreknowledge' and 'immutability' other than total theological determinism (aka 'Calvinism'). Frankly, all of them (other than 'process theology' -- which I don't know much about) are more biblical (i.e. more easily aligned with biblical teaching) than Calvinistic determinism.

Yours is the one systematic view, whose author advises you that it is 'perilous' and 'even fatal' to inquire into it because it is 'incomprehensible'. No wonder he thinks 'ignorance is bliss.'

[jude24]

The Arminian idea of God's foreknowledge without His soverignty kinda reminds me of the Emperor in the movie The Return of the Jedi. Makes a good illustration, I think.

In the movie, the Emperor tells Darth Vader that Luke Skywalker will come to Vader, and that he will then be turned to evil too. He assures Vader "I have foreseen it." But the Emperor is powerless to make it stick-- he is forced to give Skywalker the choice-- turn to the Dark Side or die -- he chooses death, but is rescued by Darth Vader, who kills the Emperor.

Now this excercise serves more than to just recite a scene from a popular 1980's movie, but it demonstrates something-- without the power to make something happen, the foreknowledge is useless. Ditto with God. The Arminian is stuck with the pleading Savior-- oh, won't you please let me save You?

Theres a song I remember from church -- about half are Arminian in my denomination. This song's close was as follows:

I own the cattle on a thousand hills
I wrote the music for the whip-poor-wills
Control the planets with their rocks and rills
But give you freedom to use your own will

And if you want me to, I'll make you whole
I'll only do it, though, if you say so
I'll never force you, for I love you so
I give you freedom, is it yes or no?

It strikes me though -- given the consequences of rejection -- how can it be, "I'll never force you, for I love you so"? I know this is the Arminian mantra-- love cannot be forced -- but that makes no sense! It would be like a parent letting his child, who he loves, choose to kill himself because he loves the child and doesnt want to force him to live. But that's what the Arminians would have us believe God is -- a wuss unable to have what he wants performed.