Navy Officer From Iowa Barred From Entering Mormon Temple

Des Moines Register ^ | 6/19/02 | Vess Mitev

[aBootes]

Personally, I suspect the definition that counts is that of Jesus. Lacking direct revelation from him to me on the subject, I give all those who claim to be Christians the benefit of the doubt. If Jesus disagrees with their claim, we'll all find out in due course.

Amen. You win for the most intelligent response yet.

[Restorer]

Is it a sin to wish the Mormons and JW's would arrive at the door at the same time?

Perhaps in hell they're forced to call on each other.

[AppyPappy]

Christianity is an individual decision, not a corporate one. A Mormon can be a Christian if he accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

[Dead Dog]

Morman's shouldn't point fingers in the murder department. They have, in the past, behaved similar to Mohomadites.

[68 grunt]

History people, history.

Oh yes, the history of a cult is definately worth studying.

[Grig]

It never displays Jesus.

I've been in MANY temples and EVERY ONE of them have SEVERAL pictures of Christ. Pictures of the interior of the temples and the artwork in them are easlily found too and confirm you are wrong. You are ignorant or a liar, and either way you are offensive to the truth.

[advocate10]

You are misinformed.

[Campion]

I would say that the very same people who deny that Mormons are Christians, also deny that Roman Catholics are Christians.

The Vatican denies that Mormon baptism is valid, and I'm pretty sure they still think that Roman Catholics are Christians.

[Criminal Number 18F]

Is a warrant officer a real (commissioned) officer?

The the US Military, a warrant officer is usually a technical specialist. Many of them come from the ranks of NCOs and petty officers. Others are trained to the task (most Army aviators are WOs). The USMC calls them "gunners," which is just old Marine tradition, I think. (Foreign forces sometimes call long-service, very senior NCOs "warrant officers").

A WO holds a "warrant" from the service secretary, as opposed to a commission from the President. At the Chief Warrant Officer level (CWO-2) he or she does get a commission. A commission is required for some duties (like command).

But the second part of your question -- in the Army we expect all officers, commissioned and warrant, to behave as gentlemen (or ladies as the case may be, whatever matches their plumbing). We also expect decorous behaviour from noncommissioned officers (sergeants), at least in the combat units. (Support and service units often have lower standards of discipline across the board). The Navy is if anything more conservative in its expectations of decorum than the Army.

I do not think this chump is funny. He has sought publicity in a way that brings controversy on him, and then he drags the service into his situation by trying to hide behind his ID card. He is entitled to his religious views (as are his Mormon antagonists) but he is not entitled to drag the USN into his quixotic proselytizing. A jerk with an officer's ID card is still a jerk, but he has become a jerk that embarrasses the service. Time to retire, sailor.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[GuillermoX]

A Mormon Temple is not like a Christian Church. Their regular meetings are held in other places, where all are invited. Mormon Temples are generally used for baptisms, proxy baptisms and weddings. I was surprised to read that the Nauvoo temple was open to the general public, as other temples are not.

Richard Ostling wrote a very interesting book called "Mormon America".

[TankerKC]

Is a warrant officer a real (commissioned) officer? Excuse my ignorance, all warrant officers out there, but is a warrant officer required to be a "gentleman?"

Warrant Officers in the grades of W-2 through W-5 are Commissioned Officers (meaning that they are commissioned by the President). Warrant Officers in the grade of W-1 are not commissioned (their "commissions" come from their Service Secretary).

[kjam22]

Christianity is an individual decision, not a corporate one. A Mormon can be a Christian if he accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

A very true statement. But it also needs to be said that a person can't be a Mormon unless he accepts Joseph Smith as God's prophet. That is the primary distinction between Mormonism and Christianity. The focus of one's belief.

[Restorer]

TYVM.

I must admit I get a great kick out of those who state their definition of a Christian as if they got it direct from Christ himself. They are entirely free to limit their recognition as Christians to those with whom they agree, but with all due respect I submit that they need a little work in the humiility department.

Jesus' parable of the wheat and tares illustrates two very important points:

1. It may not be immediately obvious who are his true followers.

2. Not everybody who claims to be a Christian will be recognized by him as such.

[donozark]

I was referring to the historical aspects of Mormons in America. Not religious or as you say "cults." Are you aware such an order was issued by the Gov. of Missouri? Their plight in America was no less than many others. The Gov. of Missouri essentially declared "open season" on them. They were driven out of Illinois. Thousands died.

Remember, Vernon Howell, (AKA David Koresh) and his followers were deemed a "cult" by many. That word has been much abused over the years.

[inkling]

2. Not everybody who claims to be a Christian will be recognized by him as such.

Amen.

[ArrogantBustard]

I was surprised to read that the Nauvoo temple was open

It hasn't been "dedicated", yet. Once it is, It will be closed to us "gentiles" just like all the others. It's still more or less a free country: They're free to do that, and I'm free to think they're a bit nutty.

[kjam22]

Now the term christian..... well that's not that hard to understand. It was and still should be associated with those who believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ. (the messiah)

I mean that is where the term comes from. Christ ian.

I would think that those who readily align their beliefs with Jesus as the biblical christ are right in calling themselves christians. Those that accept Jesus in some other form or meaning would maybe be better termed "Jesus people". Do you think?

The problem comes when people don't understand what it means for Jesus to be "The Christ". "The Messiah"

[tracer]

Perhaps the "Mormans" (sp) killed you, too, and that's why you are known as "dead dog." Your resentment certainly is understandable......

[Restorer]

Thousands died.

I've seen this repeated a number of times, but nobody has ever provided documentation. I've never been able come to up with even 100 victims of mob violence against the Mormons, substantially less than the number killed in one Mormon attack on Gentiles. If you have documentation otherwise, I'd sure like to see it.

[Jeff Head]

Well, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Jesus Christ is my Savior. The same Christ who was born of the virgin Mary, who taught at an early age in the temple, who turned water into wine, who did many miracles (including healing the sick, causing the blind to see, causing the lame to walk, raising the dead and feeding thousands wiuth a few loaves of bread among others).

He suffered in the Garden and died on the Cross for our sins on condition of our accepting Him as our Savior and having a "change" come over us where our desire is repent of our sins and become like Him and follow Him ... for as He said, "If you love me, keep my commandments".

No other thing that we can do can provide this redemption, it is only through acceptance of Him and His sacrifice and atonement that we can be saved. My church teaches this and I accept it ... He is my personal Savior. If this is true, then most probably by your own definition, the other interpretations where we may differ do not matter for I am saved in Christ ... and I am.

I have many friends, amny of them right here on FReeRepublic who are Baptist, Catholic, Methodist and any number of other Christian denomination who know me personally and would number me as a fellow Christian. I challenge you to ask some of them through FRemail, privatley if this is not so. I will be happy tom give you some fairly well-known names on FR privately so you can do this if you so desire. This is not for my own edification for I already know where I stand in this equation and I think my Savior for it, but it is to help you understand the mistaken claim that you have made.

In the end, my "Christianity" and my salvation is not a matter of your or any other interpretation, nor yours mine ... thank God. It is between each of us and our Savior and His Father, our Father in Heaven.

But He has told us that by our fruits we would know them and He used the story of the good Samaritan to illustrate it. I pray we can all not only profess Christ with our tounges, but emulate Him and thus profess Him with our actions, with our very lives.

If we do this, then we each, in our own faiths, can focus on fighting our mutual and common enemies who would destroy all of our liberty to worship our God ... instead of bickering amongst ourselves.

FRegards.