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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
What such experiments do prove is that we can create certain conditions and get certain results by applying ID.

The only thing that this proves is that under certain conditions you get certain results. So it doesn't matter how these conditions came to be. That means you should get the same results whether the conditions were created or whether they occurred naturally.
So just because you carry a rock up a hill and it rolls down if you release it doesn't meant that this could only happen if some intelligent agent carried it to the top of the hill.

1,194 posted on 06/19/2002 8:33:30 AM PDT by BMCDA
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To: BMCDA
The only thing that this proves is that under certain conditions you get certain results. So it doesn't matter how these conditions came to be. That means you should get the same results whether the conditions were created or whether they occurred naturally.

The terms "natural" and "created" are not opposites.  I am comparing "random chance" with "directed intelligence" here.  My point is that an intelligent agent could have organized our universe.  Experiments carried out by the scientific community all require ID to carry out, so they all have an ID bias which must be factored out in order to conclusively conclude that ID has no part in the process.  Personally, I don't see how ID can be factored out.

So just because you carry a rock up a hill and it rolls down if you release it doesn't meant that this could only happen if some intelligent agent carried it to the top of the hill.

Agreed.  My point is that there are many who assume that the rock could only have rolled down the hill without some intelligent agent involved.

To state that random chance is responsible for the rock rolling down the hill when the experiment is due to anything but random chance is a bit of a stretch.
1,205 posted on 06/19/2002 9:43:31 AM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: BMCDA
The only thing that this proves is that under certain conditions you get certain results. So it doesn't matter how these conditions came to be. That means you should get the same results whether the conditions were created or whether they occurred naturally.

That is correct, however one must be sure that the conditions replicated in the experiment are the ones that occur in nature. This does not seem to be a problem with most non-genetic experiments but when one comes to experiments on living organisms I would say that the experimenter needs to show proof that the same conditions did indeed exist in nature.

1,370 posted on 06/19/2002 9:14:55 PM PDT by gore3000
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