Posted on 06/17/2002 3:10:50 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
Evolution, being science, requires no faith at all I am amazed that the contention is made. The just so stories are not logical proof, they are "well it cudda happened" explanations. Nor are they material evidence because they are stories. So how does evolution not meet the second definition?--- faith Pronunciation Key (fth) |
| . . , , | ____)/ \(____ | _,--''''',-'/( )\`-.`````--._ | ,-' ,' | \ _ _ / | `-. `-. | ,' / | `._ /\\ //\ _,' | \ `. | | | `. `-( ,\\_// )-' .' | | | ,' _,----._ |_,----._\ ____`\o'_`o/'____ /_.----._ |_,----._ `. | |/' \' `\( \(_)/ )/' `/ `\| | ` ` V V ' ' Splifford the bat says: Always remember: A mind is a terrible thing to waste; especially on an evolutionist. |
Experiments of inserting foreign genes into yeasts have been successful but yeasts do not have much non-coding DNA to bother with. The insertion of foreign genetic material into mice though is quite complicated:
Using recombinant DNA methods, build molecules of DNA containing
* the structural gene you desire (e.g., the insulin gene)
* vector DNA to enable the molecules to be inserted into host DNA molecules
* promoter and enhancer sequences to enable the gene to be expressed by host cells
From: Transgenic Animals
Not so easy and note that they have to take not just the gene, but other sequences from the genome in order to make it usable.
With current protocols for the creation of transgenic mice by embryo microinjection, the site of integration is not predetermined, and, for all practical purposes, should be considered random. Microinjection allows one to add, but not subtract genetic material in a directed manner; if a particular experiment leads to the insertion of an novel version of a mouse gene into the genome, this novel allele will be present in addition to the normal diploid pair. Consequently, only dominant, or co-dominant, forms of phenotypic expression will be detectable from the transgene....
... recessive phenotypes are most likely due to the disruption of some normal vital gene. In less frequent cases, a transgene may land at a site that is flanked by an endogenous enhancer which can stimulate gene activity at inappropriate stages or tissues. This can lead to the expression of dominant phenotypes that are not strictly a result of the transgene itself. 39 For all of these reasons, it is critical to analyze data from three or more founder lines with the same transgene construct before reaching conclusions concerning the effect, or lack thereof, on the mouse phenotype....
Unless a particular transgenic insertion causes an easily detectable, dominant phenotype, the presence of the transgene in an animal is most readily determined through DNA analysis....
In the vast majority of cases, however, homozygous Tg/Tg animals will be indistinguishable in phenotype from heterozygous Tg/+ animals, and without a recessive phenotype, the identification of homozygous animals will not be straightforward.
From: Transgenic Mouse
Note that the above shows the insertion of an additional gene. Note that the random insertion can cause death if is ends up in a vital part of the genome. Note that the inserted gene must be a dominant one. Note that even if all the above happens though - that it is hard to figure out if the gene is present in subsequent generations because most likely being an additional gene it does not get used! They have to basically search the genome to see if the gene was passed on!
Please allow me to express my concern, and to exhibit that concern in my way. I also wish you, your father and family wellness and comfort.
Surely you are not postulating directed transformation of one species into another are you? That is the only way that non-random evolution could arise. That would also imply almost a grand plan from the very beginning to achieve successfully a large group of transformations. I think you have not thought this out very thoroughly.
madness-folly---evoodoolution!
Requiem---dirge--drum roll for fossil---chest thumpers.
The world years ago was fascinated by the King Kong phenomena. I think this is evolution jumping off the Empire Stae Building. The guy who was an electrical genius who discovered FM and had his patent stolen by RCA(did it to Phylo Fawnsworth over TV too) would get drunk and hang off buildings---eventually he fell---suicidal too???
I did not say backwards. However, the rest is correct and indeed it is excellent design! It is just this kind of excellent design that allowed Visicalc, the first spreadsheet to work in just 64k of memory and which allowed Lotus to do just about everything a spreadsheet needs to do in a mere 256k. Reuse of code is an efficient and proper programming practice when resources are limited or one wants or needs concise code. Indeed, even the garbage code in MS products does reuse much code. Subroutines were created just for that purpose - to reuse code in different parts of a program. Assembly programmers took this one step further and not only reused subroutines but used different insertion points to get different operations from the same code. Some would even target entry into the middle of an instruction to get a different instruction. This is also done in the genetic code in some instances by reading the DNA codons out of phase (ie not starting at the first of the 3 bases but at the 2nd or 3rd base) thus producing a completely different instruction. To develop such a system of reusing code is completely impossible to do at random.
Not so easy, remember there are two parents each of which contributes half the DNA. Mouse sperm and human egg would not produce anything. In addition even a human embryo inserted into another species would not result in a human - else it would have been done by now.
Gee, a Bible reading atheist! Of course, your advocacy of the Bible is very limited. However, your virulent attack confirms my suspicion that you were the one that pushed the button on that fellow. Nothing hurts more than the truth and I can see I hit a very big nerve.
That is correct, however one must be sure that the conditions replicated in the experiment are the ones that occur in nature. This does not seem to be a problem with most non-genetic experiments but when one comes to experiments on living organisms I would say that the experimenter needs to show proof that the same conditions did indeed exist in nature.
Interesting that you should say that when the above was refuted in the part of my message which you did not copy: "A very silly comment which can only be considered true if one makes the a priori assumption that every action one engages in is pleasurable."
Seems you think that by repeating what has already been refuted you will make utter nonsense into wisdom. Also it needs to be noted that this is the truly irrational method used by many ideologies (such as evolutionism) they just insist that everything under the sun is due to one silly idea. Sorry, anyone who is out of diapers knows that everything we do is not pleasurable. Everyone knows that everything we do is not for pleasure.
A very important point which is completely ignored by the evolutionists. They also seem quite bent on this discussion in saying that because we do not know all the variables of certain events the events are random. This is really an argument from ignorance - the kind of argument they accuse their opponents of making!
Leaky was on the front cover of Time twenty-five years ago with his lucy piece of scrap find. A few years ago...twenty years later he called a press conference in the calif. desert totally babbling incoherently he found cave man artifacts that were bits of stone... Calico Early Archaeologists have classified this site as a possible stone tool workshop, quarry, and camp site. Perhaps early nomadic hunters and gatherers stopped in this area to fashion the tools they used to survive. These tools may have included stone knives, scrapers, punches, picks, and chopping tools, as well as some saw-like tools called denticulates. Strange, that these guys are looking for anything. After all you can't discern intelligent design from random junk. And if you could, it "proves" nothing. |
King Kong 'science age' bites the dust!
No, in spite of your convoluted rhetoric to try to turn his words backwards, Frumious is correct. A repeatable experiment is by definition not random, else the results would not repeat. So yes, no event which can be repeated experimentally is random.
It is you and BMCDA that are arguing for elves. You are arguing that because we do not know why something happens, such an event is random. Randomness is your elves.
Not just that. The contention by evolutionists that you can randomly mutate was is essentially a program which is far more complex than any program man has ever developed is utterly ridiculous. For those who do not believe me, just go around randomly changing bits and bytes in any computer program you have and let me know what improvements you got!
No. Paleontology is absolute fakery, not science. Lucy's face is plaster, the oldest 'mammal' is a lower jaw, the oldest primate is a pair of ankle bones and a lower jaw found decades earlier a thousand miles away, the ancestor of the platypus is a pair of teeth found half a world away in South America. What makes it even more ridiculous is that the platypus has no teeth! So yes, paleontology is an absolute fake and its 'discoveries' should be banned from all schools. Leave them as fairy tales for atheists to enjoy at their leisure, but do not teach such garbage in school.
...our understanding of which has continually changed, mutated, and been disproven throughout human history....
If "we" should have learned ANYTHING AT ALL by now, it's that we don't "know" "anything at all" and what we think we know today will be changed by what we know tomorrow.
Guess that's why God says that the wisdom of man is foolishness to Him....
If we think we "know"...we are but fools!
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