The Biblical Jesus Christ never condemned homosexuality

The Liberal Constitutionalist ^

[aconservaguy]

The Biblical Jesus Christ never condemned homosexuality.

I know this subject is a little outside the scope of liberal Constitutional theory, but we hear it all the time. The Bible God, Christian fundamentalists say, condemns homosexuality. The religious conservative's favorite anti-gay hammer verses include such perennial stand-bys as Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and Leviticus 20:13. When read alone, these verses sound convincing and unequivocal.

However, there is another approach to the Bible that sheds a very different light on today's gay issues. Perhaps the biblical Jesus isn't as mean and nasty as some Christians seem to want him to be.

The Old Testament "anti-gay" dictates, such as in Leviticus, make up part of Mosaic Law, which was intended for the Israelites and those living with them. Mosaic Law also contains other odd dictates, such as death for rebellious teens and other (sometimes minor) offenses. Exodus chapters 21-24 and Leviticus chapters 20-22 lists many of these.

Today, however, many fundamentalist Christians, when asked why they no longer follow all of Mosaic Law, will respond "Well, Jesus fulfilled the Law!" "We are no longer under the Law!" Yet, when asked about gay issues, they generally revert to a law-like argument, proclaiming that "homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Well, which is it? Are we "under the Law" or not?

Some Christians attempt to separate "ceremonial law", done away with after the crucifixion, from "moral law," which they claim is still in effect. Others argue that some or much of the law remains in effect, but without the mandated punishments. These Christians often quote Matthew 5:17, claiming that Jesus did not "abolish" the Law, but merely "fulfilled" it.

What follows is a new and different angle, one which very seldom makes it to the airwaves or to the press.

First and foremost, Jesus did abolish the literal Mosaic Law. Ephesians 2:13-17 makes this perfectly clear. What Jesus properly fulfilled was not "the Law," but the prophecies of him, some of which were written in the Law (Luke 24:44, John 15:25). Read Matthew 5:17-18 to the very end - nothing shall disappear from the Law "until everything is accomplished" - and this will become obvious. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that Jesus "fulfilled the law" in the modern Christian fundamentalist sense that God still requires adherence to useless and baseless taboos.

However, how Jesus reportedly dealt with "law" questions is most revealing.

When the rich young man asked Jesus how he might obtain eternal life, Jesus replied, "obey the commandments" (Matt 19:17). That's a loose answer for a supposedly strict Savior, don't you think?

Apparently the man thought so, too. In verse 18, the man asked Jesus, "which ones?" In verses 18-19 (and Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20), Jesus replies with only five of the ten commandments. And, in Matthew's rendition Jesus gives a commandment that is not even one of the ten. In verse 19, Jesus lists "love your neighbor as yourself." Evidently Jesus was not overly concerned with strict literalism.

Interestingly, Jesus never did mention homosexuality. In Matthew 22:38-39, Jesus summarizes the thrust, the spirit of the law: Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Romans 13:9-10 reinforces this, as does James 2:8, which reads, "If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself,' you are doing right." Homosexuals are entirely capable of complying with this commandment, perhaps more capable than some of the heterosexual Christians I have known.

If you dig deep enough, you find a new, universal moral law that is good anywhere on earth: Try to help people, and do not harm anyone, including yourself. Simple, but forever valid.

What do we do with the "anti-gay" verses in the opening paragraph, then?

Leviticus 20 is gone with the rest of Mosaic Law. The objects of the Romans and Corinthians passages seem not to be homosexuals in and of themselves. The mental picture that forms when reading these passages is a vision of irresponsible, senseless, and destructive behavior, which bears no resemblance to that of responsible gays and lesbians entering into lasting commitments.

Moreover, Paul's letters had specific intended recipients. Paul sounds prohibitive in dealing with the Corinthians because they were the early church group with the most troubles. But when Paul wrote the Galatians, who were especially uptight about matters of "law," Paul sounds like a civil libertarian. Some of the most beautiful Scriptures are found in Galatians.

An argument can thus be made that likens God to a physician treating different patients with various illnesses. God, through Paul, wrote one type of prescription to treat the wayward Corinthians, a different prescription to treat the uptight Galatians, etc. Each of God's prescriptions would be "true" for its intended patient.

Therefore, when Jesus died on the cross for all mankind, do you really think that God wanted to "change the rules" for distant cultures such as the Aborigines and Lakota to fit what Paul wrote to Romans? Or did Jesus merely summarize the essence of all moral customs, no matter how these may manifest themselves at any given place or time?

Something to think about.

Here are some more quaint Scriptures to ponder:

James 2:25 - "In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?" Hmmm

3 John 1:11 - "Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God." Interesting.

Romans 14:5 - "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." Whatever happened to the Ten Commandments and keeping the Sabbath day holy??

Extra credit points go to anyone who takes the time to peruse Colossians 2:20-23.

From 1988 to 1996, reported hate crimes against gays and lesbians have increased 260 percent, a rise which closely coincides with today's rapidly escalated religious hatred toward gays by the extreme right wing's thousands of mass media outlets.

This begs the question: What do you think "pleases God" more? How kindly and charitably we as humans treat one another? Or how hatefully we abuse people such as gays and lesbians who fail to adhere to baseless religious taboos and "moral laws" that no longer serve any useful, practical purpose toward creating a civil society?

"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." (Romans 12:18).

[philman_36]

Did Jesus claim to be God, did he claim to be the Son of God, or was the Son of Man? Let's examine this.
Yes, let's.
I always liked
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (Strong's 1510)
8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Do you see why they wanted to stone Him?

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Forsaken, not betrayed. Strong's 1459...to leave behind in some place; let remain over; to desert

[philman_36]

Did Jesus claim to be God, did he claim to be the Son of God, or was the Son of Man? Let's examine this.
Yes, let's.
I always liked
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (Strong's 1510)
8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Do you see why they wanted to stone Him?

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Forsaken, not betrayed. Strong's 1459...to leave behind in some place; let remain over; to desert

[philman_36]

Sorry about the double post. My firewall was going off with a SubSeven port probe and glitched the view.

[philman_36]

"Judge not, lest ye be judged".
For in the manner in which ye judge so shall ye be judged.

[usconservative]

Excellent post(s) and food for thought.

Thanks specifically for the correction forsaken ... I have no idea why I typed betrayed. I was thinking forsaken and typed betrayed. I didn't even know I typed betrayed until you pointed it out. Arrrrgggghhh....

[philman_36]

Don't you share your peace with others?
I need not speak a word for my peace to be seen.
It is when I speak that my peace is broken. How appropriate that is. What I speak is what is written in the books the angels keep. My speech is what I try my best to govern as the tongue is the hardest to control of all the flesh.

[philman_36]

"Judge not, lest ye be judged".
For in the manner in which ye judge so shall ye be judged.
Therefore, when one judges they should do so righteously and fairly with the realization that the very same standard will be used towards them at some time.

I needed to add that last sentence.

[Illbay]

Here's some unequivocal words from some prophets you might not have heard of:

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose....

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

--From "The Family: A Proclamation to the World," from the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1995.

[FreeTally]

Thank you - I totally agree with what you added.

[Ol' Sparky]

First, executing the adultress was up to the governing authorities, not individuals. The Bible only gives the governing authority the right to excute (Romans 13:4). But, Christ most certainly upheld the Mosiac Law in regard to the death penalty for adultery. In fact, in Mark 7:8-11, Jesus upheld the Mosiac Law in regard to children cursing their parents.

[FreeTally]

The Bible only gives the governing authority the right to excute (Romans 13:4).

Not to get off on a tangent, but this is the words of Paul, not Christ. Many of the writings of Paul seem to contradict the words of Christ.

I'd be curious on your take of Paul's claim that "governments are instituted by God". I don't know where he got this from. The Soviet Union, the Taliban or the government ran by Pol Pot were not instituted by God.

[Ol' Sparky]

And will quit spouting liberal cliches. This idea Christians aren't supposed to judge is the mantra of the moral relativists that have tried to rewrite the Bible.

The Bible commands Christians to judge: "He who is spiritual judges ALL things" for "we have the mind of Christ," 1 Cor. 2:15-16. Luke 7:43: "Judge rightly." John 7:24: "Judge with righteous judgement." Proverbs 24:25: "Those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing upon them."

[FreeTally]

In addition, its hard to fathom that governments who execute people for being Christians are instituted by God, but you say that God gave the right of execution to governments? How do you reconcile these two claims?

[FreeTally]

I agree with what you say about "judging". Many "liberals" confuse the meaning of "judge". Yes, we are to discern right from wrong, thus "judging" actions and attitudes. "Liberals" take the Biblical reference to "Judge not" to mean you can't tell someone they are wrong or "sinning", while it really means that we are to simply "righteously judge".

[Ol' Sparky]

The Bible commands that governments execute those guilty of capital crimes:

Romans 13

Submit to Government

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

[Ol' Sparky]

The Bible commands that governments execute those guilty of capital crimes:

Romans 13

Submit to Government

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

[Ol' Sparky]

The Bible commands that governments execute those guilty of capital crimes:

Romans 13

Submit to Government

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

[Frumanchu]

The Bible is very, VERY clear on the issue of homosexuality. It is an abomination before God. No one actively practicing homosexuality will enter the kingdom of God. I cannot say whether homosexuality is fully a function of genetics or environment, but it is clearly a result of the fall of man. What must be kept in mind here is that we ALL are sinners, equally corrupt and condemned in the sight of God prior to our salvation. We are all convicted by the Law of God. I struggle daily with the wandering eyes many men are cursed with. By the spirit of the Law, according to Jesus Himself, I am committing adultery every time I think lustful thoughts about a woman other than my wife. But, whereas before I came to Christ I had only a nagging, seared conscience, now by the power of the Holy Spirit I resist as much as I can this temptation of the flesh. You would be hard pressed to find any Christian man who has not at least at some point in his walk struggled against sin like this. And this is but one example. Take a running total during any given day of how many "innocent" slanderous remarks or gossip come from your mouth. For the person who struggles with homosexuality it is no different. They must, and can, by the power of the Holy Spirit, fight the good fight against their flesh. Nobody said our sanctification would be easy, but we "can do all things through Christ who strengthens [us]." We are no longer slaves to sin, but slaves to righteousness.

Attempting to argue a way out of the Biblical condemnation of homosexuality is just making excuses to continue that which is morally and naturally wrong.

I know homosexual men. There's one sitting right next to me as I type this. I will never stand in condemnation of them, but neither will I sugarcoat or trivialize the Truth. I will pray for them as I pray for anyone living in sin, that they repent and turn from their sin to Jesus Christ and seek the power of the Holy Spirit to live unto God.

[philman_36]

You know but doeth not.
And you know of which I speak.
You aren't judging rightly. You judge with a predetermined bias refuting the Word in the process.
All seed bearing plants were made by G_d and He deemed them good.
You deem some of them evil.
How say ye?

[Hat-Trick]

One scripture I never hear the homosexual or habitually sinful, outwardly rebellious want to discuss is 1st Corinthians 10:13.

This scripture pretty much tells the homosexual: guess what, you WERE NOT born that way, you ARE NOT the only one who feels like this, and you CAN overcome this temptation by taking the way of escape that God will provide.

Humankind would be much better off if those who profess the name of Christ, homosexual and heterosexual alike, would stop approaching God's Word like an ala carte menu.

Hat-Trick