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The Biblical Jesus Christ never condemned homosexuality
The Liberal Constitutionalist ^

Posted on 06/06/2002 10:02:20 AM PDT by aconservaguy

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To: usconservative
Did Jesus claim to be God, did he claim to be the Son of God, or was the Son of Man? Let's examine this.
Yes, let's.
I always liked
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (Strong's 1510)
8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Do you see why they wanted to stone Him?

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Forsaken, not betrayed. Strong's 1459...to leave behind in some place; let remain over; to desert

61 posted on 06/06/2002 12:30:22 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: usconservative
Did Jesus claim to be God, did he claim to be the Son of God, or was the Son of Man? Let's examine this.
Yes, let's.
I always liked
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (Strong's 1510)
8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Do you see why they wanted to stone Him?

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Forsaken, not betrayed. Strong's 1459...to leave behind in some place; let remain over; to desert

62 posted on 06/06/2002 12:31:37 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: usconservative
Sorry about the double post. My firewall was going off with a SubSeven port probe and glitched the view.
63 posted on 06/06/2002 12:34:35 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: FreeTally
"Judge not, lest ye be judged".
For in the manner in which ye judge so shall ye be judged.
64 posted on 06/06/2002 12:35:52 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
Excellent post(s) and food for thought.

Thanks specifically for the correction forsaken ... I have no idea why I typed betrayed. I was thinking forsaken and typed betrayed. I didn't even know I typed betrayed until you pointed it out. Arrrrgggghhh....

65 posted on 06/06/2002 12:39:48 PM PDT by usconservative
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To: usconservative
Don't you share your peace with others?
I need not speak a word for my peace to be seen.
It is when I speak that my peace is broken. How appropriate that is. What I speak is what is written in the books the angels keep. My speech is what I try my best to govern as the tongue is the hardest to control of all the flesh.
66 posted on 06/06/2002 12:40:48 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: FreeTally
"Judge not, lest ye be judged".
For in the manner in which ye judge so shall ye be judged.
Therefore, when one judges they should do so righteously and fairly with the realization that the very same standard will be used towards them at some time.

I needed to add that last sentence.

67 posted on 06/06/2002 12:46:57 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: aconservaguy
Here's some unequivocal words from some prophets you might not have heard of:
All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose....

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

--From "The Family: A Proclamation to the World," from the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1995.


68 posted on 06/06/2002 12:48:54 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: philman_36
Thank you - I totally agree with what you added.
69 posted on 06/06/2002 12:52:15 PM PDT by FreeTally
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To: FreeTally
First, executing the adultress was up to the governing authorities, not individuals. The Bible only gives the governing authority the right to excute (Romans 13:4). But, Christ most certainly upheld the Mosiac Law in regard to the death penalty for adultery. In fact, in Mark 7:8-11, Jesus upheld the Mosiac Law in regard to children cursing their parents.
70 posted on 06/06/2002 1:01:11 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky
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To: Ol' Sparky
The Bible only gives the governing authority the right to excute (Romans 13:4).

Not to get off on a tangent, but this is the words of Paul, not Christ. Many of the writings of Paul seem to contradict the words of Christ.

I'd be curious on your take of Paul's claim that "governments are instituted by God". I don't know where he got this from. The Soviet Union, the Taliban or the government ran by Pol Pot were not instituted by God.

71 posted on 06/06/2002 1:05:59 PM PDT by FreeTally
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To: FreeTally
And will quit spouting liberal cliches. This idea Christians aren't supposed to judge is the mantra of the moral relativists that have tried to rewrite the Bible.

The Bible commands Christians to judge: "He who is spiritual judges ALL things" for "we have the mind of Christ," 1 Cor. 2:15-16. Luke 7:43: "Judge rightly." John 7:24: "Judge with righteous judgement." Proverbs 24:25: "Those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing upon them."

72 posted on 06/06/2002 1:07:59 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky
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To: FreeTally; Ol' Sparky
In addition, its hard to fathom that governments who execute people for being Christians are instituted by God, but you say that God gave the right of execution to governments? How do you reconcile these two claims?
73 posted on 06/06/2002 1:08:02 PM PDT by FreeTally
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To: Ol' Sparky
I agree with what you say about "judging". Many "liberals" confuse the meaning of "judge". Yes, we are to discern right from wrong, thus "judging" actions and attitudes. "Liberals" take the Biblical reference to "Judge not" to mean you can't tell someone they are wrong or "sinning", while it really means that we are to simply "righteously judge".
74 posted on 06/06/2002 1:11:36 PM PDT by FreeTally
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To: FreeTally
The Bible commands that governments execute those guilty of capital crimes:

Romans 13

Submit to Government

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

75 posted on 06/06/2002 1:13:18 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky
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To: FreeTally
The Bible commands that governments execute those guilty of capital crimes:

Romans 13

Submit to Government

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

76 posted on 06/06/2002 1:13:25 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky
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To: FreeTally
The Bible commands that governments execute those guilty of capital crimes:

Romans 13

Submit to Government

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

77 posted on 06/06/2002 1:14:06 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky
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To: aconservaguy;nobdysfool
The Bible is very, VERY clear on the issue of homosexuality. It is an abomination before God. No one actively practicing homosexuality will enter the kingdom of God. I cannot say whether homosexuality is fully a function of genetics or environment, but it is clearly a result of the fall of man. What must be kept in mind here is that we ALL are sinners, equally corrupt and condemned in the sight of God prior to our salvation. We are all convicted by the Law of God. I struggle daily with the wandering eyes many men are cursed with. By the spirit of the Law, according to Jesus Himself, I am committing adultery every time I think lustful thoughts about a woman other than my wife. But, whereas before I came to Christ I had only a nagging, seared conscience, now by the power of the Holy Spirit I resist as much as I can this temptation of the flesh. You would be hard pressed to find any Christian man who has not at least at some point in his walk struggled against sin like this. And this is but one example. Take a running total during any given day of how many "innocent" slanderous remarks or gossip come from your mouth. For the person who struggles with homosexuality it is no different. They must, and can, by the power of the Holy Spirit, fight the good fight against their flesh. Nobody said our sanctification would be easy, but we "can do all things through Christ who strengthens [us]." We are no longer slaves to sin, but slaves to righteousness.

Attempting to argue a way out of the Biblical condemnation of homosexuality is just making excuses to continue that which is morally and naturally wrong.

I know homosexual men. There's one sitting right next to me as I type this. I will never stand in condemnation of them, but neither will I sugarcoat or trivialize the Truth. I will pray for them as I pray for anyone living in sin, that they repent and turn from their sin to Jesus Christ and seek the power of the Holy Spirit to live unto God.

78 posted on 06/06/2002 1:17:35 PM PDT by Frumanchu
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To: Ol' Sparky
You know but doeth not.
And you know of which I speak.
You aren't judging rightly. You judge with a predetermined bias refuting the Word in the process.
All seed bearing plants were made by G_d and He deemed them good.
You deem some of them evil.
How say ye?
79 posted on 06/06/2002 1:29:23 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: aconservaguy
One scripture I never hear the homosexual or habitually sinful, outwardly rebellious want to discuss is 1st Corinthians 10:13.

This scripture pretty much tells the homosexual: guess what, you WERE NOT born that way, you ARE NOT the only one who feels like this, and you CAN overcome this temptation by taking the way of escape that God will provide.

Humankind would be much better off if those who profess the name of Christ, homosexual and heterosexual alike, would stop approaching God's Word like an ala carte menu.

Hat-Trick

80 posted on 06/06/2002 1:29:26 PM PDT by Hat-Trick
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