The Pandemonium Perpetrated by the Premillennialist Paradigm

OpinioNet.com ^ | 06/06/2002 | Lee R. Shelton IV

[Thinkin' Gal]

the completion of the Church age

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away* first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

falling away:

646 apostasia {ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
feminine of the same as 647; TDNT - 1:513,88; n f
AV - to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1; 2

1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

feminine of the same as 647...

647 apostasion {ap-os-tas'-ee-on}
neuter of a (presumed) adj. from a derivative of 868;; n n
AV - divorcement 2, writing of divorcement 1; 3

1) divorce, repudiation
2) a bill of divorce

***

Cause and effect.

1st century:

Acts 28:25-28

25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation [Yesha] of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

21st century:

And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation [Yesha] of God is sent unto the JEWS, and that they will hear it.
And when he had said these words, the CHURCH departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

[RobRoy]

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne. Sounds like a Rapture to me!

You're definitely getting something between the lines here that I just don't see. I don't see how this scripture and that preceeding it even can be made to relate to the rapture.

[Campion]

Absolutely, perfectly, completely right on the money.

[moteineye]

Matt.24:34 "this generation =(age) shall not pass away"

[Iowegian]

Absolutely wrong. Replacement theology is not Biblical and is anti-Semitic. God is not finished with the Jews. We (the church) are but grafted in branches. Read the Bible sometime for yourself and stop believing everything you are told (whether true or not).

[exnavy]

Curb your pride Lee.

[Iowegian]

#7 Excellent post. I await a rebuttal from the nay-sayers. I'm guessing they won't even try.

[TomSmedley]

Read the Bible sometime for yourself and stop believing everything you are told (whether true or not).

Good advice. Try it. I usually try to read thru the NT in Greek every other year or so. It's missing those strange little Schofield footnotes, tho, so I guess it's not complete. Unlike you, I do not view evangelism as an invitation to join the losing team, and become a doormat for Jesus. My Lord rules, in both the Biblical and contemporary colloquial sense of that word. Sorry about your crippled and stinted conception of Jesus and His work.

[sheltonmac]

???????????

[exnavy]

"God is no longer dealing with national Isreal" It is a prideful man who thinks he can predict Gods actions.

[Quix]

CERTAINLY that's a sufficient, valid, wise reason.

I just don't think it's the only one.

[Iowegian]

Excuse me??? Try again, but this time, please actually address some points, like those made very eloquently in post # 7, instead of whatever that was. My points were directed where they were for a reason and don't necessarily apply to you. But thanks for the reply.

[Quix]

THANKS for your post. It just boggles my mind that people could read the same Bible and construe such a long, long list of clearly never fulfilled Scriptures as having been fulfilled eons ago. Wish fulfilllment?

And the idea that we are somehow shoehorning this horridly sin beleagured world into the Peaceful perfect world of Christ's soon coming reign . . . it really boggles my mind.

Thankfully, God has never been restrained in the least by those who failed to believe He said what He meant and meant what He said.

[Quix]

It is perfectly plausible to construe the Scripture about "this generation" as:

(A) the generation that sees Israeli's returning to Israel from their dispersion SINCE CALVARY--THAT GENERATION SEEING ISRAELI'S RETURN TO ISRAEL--SHALL ALSO SEE THE REST OF THE END TIME SCRIPTURES FULFILLED. . . . a perfectly plausible, logical interpretation. . . one that best fits the language and context, to my mind.

(B) Another plausible interpretation is that "this generation" can be translated "people group"--this people group shall not cease to exist until all the rest of the end time stuff is fulfilled.

I'm still trying to even imagine what emotional, theological, psycho-dynamic--ANY-reason there might be for your interpretation. . . it's still hard for me to explain.

[Quix]

An alternate explanation for the phenomenon you described is that those hostile to this era being Biblical end times are greatly more stubborn, rigid and narrow than other folk.

Given God's attitude toward stubbornness, it's not exactly a feather in one's cap.

[OwenKellogg]

>>> God's promises are not null and void. They were fulfilled in Christ. <<<

I think He even managed to tell us that he came to fulfill the law (Matt 5:17).

Then for emphasis: "It is finished.(John 19:30)"

[Quix]

I don't have the slightest need for you to be impressed.

I enjoy having fun with the colors. You are welcome to ignore them.

Whether my logic etc. is flawless or not, God's Word and purposes shall unfold--evidently rather dramatically in our era--regardless. . . it's sobering but exciting to see. To be called to a role in the drama is a humbling honor regardless of it being a role to shine shoes or exhort kings.

I am curious at what point in the unfolding of Scriptural prophecy after prophecy with the unfolding of the morning paper . . . when in the process are folk on your side of constructions of reality . . . begin to realize they've misconstrued things. . . that will indeed be fascinating.

[Quix]

I like your Scriptures and logic.

[Quix]

Actually trying to impress folk hereon with colors and fonts would at best be a futile exercise.

I enjoy them myself. They are fun for me. Besides being fun, they are practical, when I want to refer back to a section, the section is easier to find. And, because I tend to use the colors in whatever haphazard way seems fun at the time, each posting has it's own complexion so to speak. That makes the posting easy to note among several.

But mostly, I just enjoy color. God seems to have liked it. I find I tend to like what He likes. Life has enough deadness, drabness, dullness, walking deadness.

It has begun to have an alternate bit of fun attached to it. . . it seems to annoy folk who seem to have very drab, dead, stodgy, fossilized theologies.

[Quix]

You're sure welcome to support Israel for most any sane, constructive reason. And, I suspect, blessing Israel for any reason will still carry a blessing attached to it.