Can the Bishops Heal the American Church?

Crisis: Politics, Culture & the Church | June 2002 | George Sim Johnston

[Salvation]

As I understand this absurdity that you continue to push, you hold that the state, by allowing people to choose whether to do things like use contraception, is forcing good Catholics to accept it and is violating their freedom to impose their version of morality by law.

Please consult someone who is an expert in this.

The Church will allow something like birth control to happen under certain circumstances. It is called "Informed Conscience" or "Mature Conscience". In other words, a Catholic after talking with a priest and considering all the options can make and Informed Conscience decision to use birth control. Each individual case is considered on its pros and cons.

[Salvation]

What is the next best thing!?!?!

Consider attending a Communion Service at your regular church. A Deacon or lay person would officiate, so no consecration takes place, and Communion is offered only under the species of consecrated hosts.

[Salvation]

That would be "previously" consecrated hosts.

[sinkspur]

The Church will allow something like birth control to happen under certain circumstances. It is called "Informed Conscience" or "Mature Conscience". In other words, a Catholic after talking with a priest and considering all the options can make and Informed Conscience decision to use birth control. Each individual case is considered on its pros and cons.

Let's see if you get whipped as I do when I say things much less boldly than you have.

[american colleen]

re: your #102 & #103 - you are kidding, right? Why would I want to do that? I'd rather drive a couple of hundred miles where the Mass, by a priest, is being said.

[Askel5]

I've been looking and I don't see an authority for this beyond those whose consciences compel them to encourage others to likewise follow their consciences and abandon the teaching of the Church or "one man's opinion" as the press called Humanae Vitae.

[Askel5]

Let's see if you get whipped as I do when I say things much less boldly than you have.

What's bold about his statement (as opposed to yours) is that he's implying this is promulgated by the Church and not conscientious objector Catholics like yourself.

[St.Chuck]

The Church will allow something like birth control to happen...

What is something like birth control?

[sinkspur]

What's bold about his statement (as opposed to yours) is that he's implying this is promulgated by the Church and not conscientious objector Catholics like yourself.

Does that make him more "right" than me?

[Catholicguy]

The Church will allow something like birth control to happen under certain circumstances. It is called "Informed Conscience" or "Mature Conscience". In other words, a Catholic after talking with a priest and considering all the options can make and Informed Conscience decision to use birth control. Each individual case is considered on its pros and cons.

Not to put too fine a point of it but - bull shit.

See #1777-1802 in the Catechism

[Catholicguy]

of=on

[Askel5]

No, you're both wrong.

I'm just waiting for his source, that's all.

The Church condemns artificial -- and especially abortifacient -- birth control as illicit in no uncertain terms.

[John Locke]

I believe bullion is also acceptable, if you don't have the cash;

"Now, goode men, God foryeve yow youre trespas,
And ware yow fro the synne of avarice;
Myn hooly pardoun may yow alle warice,
So that ye offre nobles or sterlynges,
Or elles silver broches, spoones, rynges; ..."

Geoffrey Chaucer, The Pardoner's Tale

[BlackElk]

In all but a miniscule percentage of instances, that would be a very good guess and an absolutely accurate one.

[BlackElk]

My, my, my, somebody sure does need a hug! Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Were you attacked by your goats?

[BlackElk]

Of course, sinnce you are not only not within the Church but are actively insulted over any invitation, you are right, it is annoying to have you butting into discussions of the governance of the Roman catholic Church. Of course, it is a petty annoyance.

You must figure that you have your own house in order. I personally was soooo impressed with the practice of Government Almighty effectively deciding your bishops in Russia during the Soviet era. It sure was better to have Stalin choose your bishops or Brezhnev than to be free of government domination, right? Please explain how a Church can be obedient to Lenin whose movement martyred Nicholas and Alexandra and yet declare Nicholas and Alexandra saints.

Isn't it annoying to have Roman Catholics, etc.? I could ask a lot more of these questions but will happily mind my own business if you will too.

[BlackElk]

I will certainly bear that in mind if and when I get around to responding to your blithe acceptrance of communist agitprop against Blessed Alois Cardinal Stepinac who will be a saint and will not be apologized for.

You know, I for one did not think the US had any business sticking its nose into Serbia although I was gratified by the deposing by the Serbians of Milosevic. Posts like yours make me wonder.

Most Catholics have a very friendly attitude toward our slightly separated brethren in the various Orthodox Churches and toward your Churches themselves and most of us marvel over the bitter hostility of a hanmdful of you toward us.

[BlackElk]

You give aid and comfort to those who would reject the idea of Ubi Petrus, Ibi Ecclesia. Naturally, you will be praised by those outside the Church who resent the Church and this magnificent pope as in Post #78 herein. The last Guy Who was perfect was crucified for His efforts. If you have a problem with JPII as pope and you are Catholic, I feel sorry for you. The point of the Church is not made by an ever narrowing group of ultraorthodox until they dwindle down to me and you, but sometimes I worry about you and vice versa.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Most Catholics have a very friendly attitude towards our slightly separated brethern in the various Orthodox Churches and toward your Churches themselves and most of us marvel over the bitter hostility of a handful of you toward us.

Bump.