Vatican Says Jews' Wait For Messiah Is Validated by Old Testament

International New York Times ^

[1 spark]

VATICAN CITY, Jan. 17 — The Vatican has issued what some Jewish scholars are calling an important document that explicitly says, "The Jewish wait for the Messiah is not in vain."

The scholarly work, effectively a rejection of and apology for the way some Christians have viewed the Old Testament, was signed by the pope's theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

The document says Jews and Christians in fact share the wait for the Messiah, though Jews are waiting for the first coming, and Christians for the second.

"The difference consists in the fact that for us, he who will come will have the same traits of that Jesus who has already come," wrote Cardinal Ratzinger, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

At least one Jewish scholar said the new document is a marked departure from "Dominus Iesus," a study of the redemptive role of Jesus that was released last year in Cardinal Ratzinger's name and that fanned disputes between Catholic and Jewish scholars.

The new document also says Catholics must regard the Old Testament as "retaining all of its value, not just as literature, but its moral value," said Joaquín Navarro-Valls, the pope's spokesman. "You cannot say, `Now that Jesus has come, it becomes a second-rate document.' "

"The expectancy of the Messiah was in the Old Testament," he went on, "and if the Old Testament keeps its value, then it keeps that as a value, too. It says you cannot just say all the Jews are wrong and we are right."

Asked whether that could be taken to mean that the Messiah may or may not have come, Dr. Navarro- Valls said no. "It means it would be wrong for a Catholic to wait for the Messiah, but not for a Jew," he said.

The document, the result of years of work by the Pontifical Biblical Commission, goes on to apologize for the fact that certain New Testament passages that criticize the Pharisees, for example, had been used to justify anti-Semitism.

Everything in the report is now considered part of official church doctrine, Dr. Navarro-Valls said.

The Rev. Albert Vanhoye, a Jesuit scholar who worked on the commission, said the project sees Scripture as a link between Christians and Jews, and the New Testament as a continuation of the Old, though divergent in obvious ways.

A number of Jewish scholars and leaders said they were pleased but stunned and would have to take some time to digest fully the complicated, 210-page study, published in French and Italian.

"This is something altogether new, especially compared with the earlier document from Ratzinger that was so controversial," said Rabbi Alberto Piattelli, a professor and leader of the Jewish community in Rome.

"This latest declaration is a step forward" in closing the wounds opened by that earlier document, Rabbi Piattelli said. "It recognizes the value of the Jewish position regarding the wait for the Messiah, changes the whole exegesis of biblical studies and restores our biblical passages to their original meaning. I was surprised."

Prof. Michael R. Marrus, dean of graduate studies at the University of Toronto, who specializes in the history of the Holocaust, was also complimentary. Professor Marrus was among the Jewish members of a panel studying the Vatican's role in the Holocaust, but the group was disbanded after disputes between Catholic and Jewish scholars.

"This is important," he said, "and all the more so because it comes from Cardinal Ratzinger, who is not considered the most liberal spokesman for the church. It represents real and remarkable progress on the Catholic-Jewish front," even as the dispute over the Catholic Church's wartime history seems to be hardening, he added.

At least initially, the only voices of dissent were on the Catholic side, where some traditionalists said they felt the church under Pope John Paul II had done altogether too much apologizing already.

Vittorio Messori, a Catholic writer and commentator, said he respects the pope but "his apologies leave me perplexed."

"He's inspired and has his reasons," Mr. Messori said, "but what's dangerous in these apologies is that he seems to say the church itself has been wrong in its teaching," rather than just some within the church.

The oddest thing about the document from the Jewish perspective is that it was so quietly released. It has been in bookstores here since November, but as a small book titled "The Jewish People and the Holy Scriptures in the Christian Bible," it drew no notice until the Italian news agency ANSA printed a small report on it Wednesday.

Tullia Zevi, a longtime Jewish community leader and commentator here, said: "The widespread opinion on the document is that it's trying to question the validity of past attitudes of the church, and seems an attempt to move us closer to together. So why was such an important document kept secret?"

One possibility, she said, was that the church was trying to avoid criticism within its own ranks.

Vatican officials, however, say it was not announced because it was seen mainly as a theological study intended for other theologians.

The Vatican is governed by tradition and habit, and is thus quite able to keep silent about even important new policies. In December, for example, word emerged without fanfare of new rules on the treatment of priests accused of pedophilia.

Andrea Riccardi, the founder of the Sant'Egidio Community, a left- leaning Catholic group with a history of mediating international conflicts and promoting religious dialogue, said he was most impressed by the depth of the new document.

"This should be reassuring" to Jews, he said, "especially because these last years have not been easy."

He said the document in no way backtracks from "Dominus Iesus" ("The Lord Jesus"), but does represent a significant shift.

"In the past, we've talked about an ancient, common heritage," he said. "But now, for the first time, we're talking about our future waiting for the Messiah and the end of time."

Waiting together?

"No," Mr. Riccardi said. "But waiting close to each other."

[malakhi]

b. The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.

Are you suggesting that Jesus was a blasphemer?

[Catholicguy]

You inserted yourself into the arguement for reasons known only to yourself.

Its no secret. I found your demeanor offensive.

There are some anxious to be offended. I can't account for the behavior of others. Victimhod is the Red Badge of Courage in this post-Christian society

My rant (self-described) was directed to the document as described in the article; and it was directed to the bigots anxious to defame a great man and wonderul Pope.

That you took personal offense where clearly none was intended is not my fault.

[malakhi]

I have a number of translations here, all essentially agreeing with Starwind's and none agreeing with angelo's.

A number of Christian translations, and they all agree. Surprise, surprise.

The both agreed on the translation.

I don't think that is at all clear from your transcript. Lapide's subsequent comments argue against your interpretation of the prophecy in any case.

[malakhi]

No, just the Talmud, if Catholicguy's description of it was correct.

I am waiting for him to provide evidence to back up his claim. We shall see if it is forthcoming.

[malakhi]

Were the rabbis who translated the Septuagint trying to force the text to fit the Christian template?

Are you referring to the the translation that was commissioned by the pagan Egyptian ruler Ptolemy II Philadelphus?

[Catholicguy]

Your assertion that what you believe to be true is "the Truth" does not make it so. If my saying that offends you, tough. Surely you could not be offended by "any vigorous, uncompromising defense of" Judaism? Surely you would not take "personal umbrage at objective defenses of the truth"?

Angelo, "The Truth" is a matter of Divine Revelation. I don't "debate" that. I accept it. If others don't, that isn't between me and them; it is between them and Jesus, The Word made flesh.

Your statement about "defending Judaism" is revealtory. It is not a defense. It is an direct assault upon Jesus, the Messiah, Our Lord and Saviour and, especially for you, the Gospel of John.

I don't spend my time seeking out threads where i might attack the Faith of Jews, Never have, never will. I don't understand that mind set. I am not about to become embroiled in post, then counter-post, then counter-counter post of scripture ina "debate" Saecula Saeculorum. You are the one that inserted yourself between me and my response to the article this thread is about. You have taken my response to the putative Document and the polemicists mentioned in the story and you have personalised them as directed at you. I can not prevent you from doing that.

One reason I left the neverending thread LONG AGO was the incessant and inane attacks on Divine Revelation. The attacks were even directed against Jesus directly, denying He is both man and God.

I have never attacked Jews or their beliefs and I sure as hell wouldn't waste my time searching threads where I could claim victimhood and attack the Faith of another

[Woodkirk]

That's fine -- how do they explain away the numbers?

[malakhi]

Angelo, "The Truth" is a matter of Divine Revelation.

I repeat. Just because you believe that something is true does not make it "the Truth".

Your statement about "defending Judaism" is revealtory. It is not a defense. It is an direct assault upon Jesus, the Messiah, Our Lord and Saviour and, especially for you, the Gospel of John.

Oh, so you can "defend" Catholicism, because it is "the Truth". But any so-called "defense" of Judaism is not truly a defense, but rather is a direct assault on Jesus?

This can work both ways, you know. Let me try it.

"Your statement about "defending Catholicism" is revealtory (sic). It is not a defense. It is an direct assault upon and, especially for you, the Torah."

How was that?

[malakhi]

That's fine -- how do they explain away the numbers?

Which numbers?

[Frumanchu]

Unless of course He IS God... ;)
How ya been angelo?

[SoothingDave]

And amazingly today across the globe Roman priests through "the Mass" mystically perform this sacrifice of the Son of God all over again and again, calling it a "celebration" , as if the 32 AD sacrifice was not good enough.

Your confused understanding of the sacrificial nature of the Mass notwithstanding, it is worth pointing out that it really is called "Mass" and it is a "celebration." No scare quotes are needed.

SD

[malakhi]

Unless of course He IS God... ;) How ya been angelo?

Hey Fru! I'm great. How've you been? How's your dad?

[Frumanchu]

Dad's doing well, although just found himself unemployed again as the company he was working for closed its doors. He has a lot of prospects though, so that shouldn't last long.

Angelo, can you explain here, or do you have a link to your view on, exactly what your view of the Messiah is as a Jew? Scriptural references would be helpful (actually essential:) I have yet to grasp what your belief is in the Messiah and I think a little clarification will help in further discussions.

[malakhi]

Angelo, can you explain here, or do you have a link to your view on, exactly what your view of the Messiah is as a Jew? Scriptural references would be helpful (actually essential:) I have yet to grasp what your belief is in the Messiah and I think a little clarification will help in further discussions.

I'd be happy to. I happened across a great web page on this topic yesterday, and I think you'll find it very informative. Let's see if I can dig it out of my bookmarks...

Here we go: Messiah Wanted!

Please tell you dad I said hello, and tell him to drop in and visit sometime!

[malakhi]

Oh, and please see my #79. You made some strong comments about what the Talmud has to say about Jesus and Mary, and I would like you to either back them up with evidence or retract them.

[Catholicguy]

"Your statement about "defending Catholicism" is revealtory (sic). It is not a defense. It is an direct assault upon and, especially for you, the Torah." How was that?

anticipated...

Irrelevant, in that I didn't attack the Torah yet you did attack the Gospel of John.

Angelo, I learned the soul has the properties of Will, Intellect and Memory. It is clear that your Will is annealed against accepting Jesus as the Messiah. It is my opinion your Will commands your intellect to combat any knowledge militating against it. In my opinion, your memories of having once been Christian and having rejected Christianity haunt you.

For what it is worth, those are my thoughts about what has happened on this thread. I believe that Jesus established one authority on earth to settle such disputes. You do not accept that authority as legitimate; so, I see no reason for exchanges.