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To: nickcarraway
I agree that Mary should be honored as the mother of JESUS..but I do have a problem with calling Mary the 'mother of God' .. for she was a sinner like us all.. and in that is it not even MORE of a miracle?? IF Mary had been born without sin.. had been perfect..then what miracle is there? He was the second Adam in that his humaness came from his mother.. inheritance being from the father.. as he had no human father.. just as Adam did not.. he had God as his creator..his father. Mary should be honored as Jesus mother.. but worshipped as the mother of God? Jesus did exist before his human birth. The Word of the Living God:

1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

1Jo 1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4 posted on 05/06/2002 2:58:34 AM PDT by Zipporah
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To: Zipporah
Mary should be honored as Jesus mother.. but worshipped as the mother of God?

To comment on Mary's role here is also to comment on the nature of the Trinity, the nature of the Incarnation, and especially the nature of the hypostatic union. I'm no theologian -- others here are surely more qualified to comment, but I believe the council that defined Mary as "Theotokos" (Mother of God) argued to the effect that to do otherwise would imply only a mechanistic connection between the person of Jesus and the Second Person of the Trinity (I'm sure they didn't say it that way, but I can't think at the moment of a better phrase).

These are all very great mysteries, opaque to human reason -- but they are all involved here.

(You are aware that Catholics do not worship Mary?)

I hope someone with a better theological background than mine will add to this.

15 posted on 05/06/2002 7:42:44 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Zipporah
I am a lifelong Catholic and have yet to meet a Catholic who worships Mary.
16 posted on 05/06/2002 7:45:35 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Zipporah
It should tell you something (about whether we worship Mary) that the radical feminazis who claim to be Catholic had to make up an earth goddess to use in their neo-pagan rituals and theology.

If Mary had god-like status in the Catholic Church they would have just focused their attention on her - instead due to Mary's humility and handmaiden-of-the-Lord status the feminazis felt compelled to invent a new goddess.

17 posted on 05/06/2002 7:50:19 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Zipporah
I agree that Mary should be honored as the mother of JESUS..but I do have a problem with calling Mary the 'mother of God' ..

Luke 1:43 "And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me."

22 posted on 05/06/2002 8:48:58 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Zipporah
I agree that Mary should be honored as the mother of JESUS..but I do have a problem with calling Mary the 'mother of God' ..

Christ is Risen!

Then you are a Nestorian. That heresy was condemned at the 3rd Ecumenical Council.

Paste:

Held in Ephesus, Asia Minor in 431 under Emperor Theodosius II (grandson of Theodosius the Great). 200 Bishops were present.

The Nestorian Controversy

It concerned the nature of Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Nestorius taught that the Virgin Mary gave birth to a man, Jesus Christ, not God, the "Logos" ("The Word", Son of God). The Logos only dwelled in Christ, as in a Temple (Christ, therefore, was only Theophoros: The "Bearer of God". Consequently, Virgin Mary should be called "Christotokos," Mother of Christ and not "Theotokos, "Mother of God." Hence, the name, "Christological controversies".

Nestorianism over emphasized the human nature of Christ at the expense of the divine. The Council denounced Nestorius' teaching as erroneous. Our Lord Jesus Christ is one person, not two separate "people": the Man, Jesus Christ and the Son of God, Logos. The Council decreed that Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God (Logos), is complete God and complete man, with a rational soul and body. The Virgin Mary is "Theotokos" because she gave birth not to man but to God who became man. The union of the two natures of Christ took place in such a fashion that one did not disturb the other.

Don-o says: If you relegate Mary to being a "chosen vessel" used by God to get a body, you are Nestorian. The fact that He rose up from the dead in a body that Thomas could handle; the fact that He ate, and at the same time walked through walls; the fact that his glorified human body ascended; all these facts support the historical understanding of the Incarnation.

It is indeed foolishness to the Greeks and a stumbling block to the Jews, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.

40 posted on 05/06/2002 1:02:10 PM PDT by don-o
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