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1 posted on 05/04/2002 4:43:38 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; Jerry_M...
Bump
2 posted on 05/04/2002 4:45:28 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
The gospel challenge:
(Can the non-Calvinist answer)
  1. The gospel has a name: exactly 5 words.
  2. The gospel can be expressed: exactly 3 words.
One can start to preach the gospel when #1 & 2 are understood. (A hint: Rev 3:20 is NOT the gospel!)
3 posted on 05/04/2002 5:38:05 PM PDT by CCWoody
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To: RnMomof7; Catholic_list
Forgive them, Father.
12 posted on 05/05/2002 1:48:45 AM PDT by oremus
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To: RnMomof7
Millions upon millions of men, from both the old and the new dispensation, have never heard of the love of God. That is, it was never preached to them. But could it possibly be that God would love any man, love him so greatly that He gave His only begotten Son for him, and then would never tell that man of His love? What a strange love of God that would be!

Yes, it would be strange. You know, of course, that LDS doctrine is that every man has the opportunity to be told of the love of God, before the resurrection. If that is true (and I believe it is), then the author will have to rethink his interpretation of John 3:16.

John 3:16 is really not that hard to understand. It means what it says. God does love the entire world -- every man, woman, and child who has lived, does live, and will live on the earth -- and for that reason He gave His Son.

Incidentally, John 3:17-21 is worth reading as well.

25 posted on 05/05/2002 7:30:31 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: RnMomof7
These are but two of the many passages in the Bible in which the term "world" appears. But wherever that term appears in Scripture, and whatever else that term "world" may mean, you can put every passage to the test, and you will discover that the word never simply means all men.

Well thank goodness for that. I was always worried that this verse, 1 John 5:19, "...the whole world lieth in wickedness," really included "all men" as in "all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God," which would have included you and I.

Ah...I guess it does, doesn't it? I guess old Prof. Homer C. Hoeksema was wrong about this too, like the rest of his fantastic circumlocution.

(How I wish good men would be careful about their generalizations.)

Hank

27 posted on 05/05/2002 8:27:21 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: RnMomof7
It is either...or. Either God loves all men; or he loves only His elect.

It's not an either/or...there are two classes of those saved. One is the elect, and one is rest.

The elect are those that will serve as kings in priest in God's millenial kingdom. The elect will take part in the first resurrection:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.

The elect are these people. But it's not everyone who will be offered salvation. It's just that the elect get salvation before others.

After the thousand years, there is another resurrection, one in which the non-elect are resurrected and given the opportunity for salvation:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

How does Calvinism interpet this?

39 posted on 05/06/2002 5:58:24 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: RnMomof7, Xzins, winstonchurchill, corin stormhands, Revelation 911, P-Marlowe
Therefore I affirm with John 3:16 and 1 Timothy 2:4 that God loves the world with a deep compassion that desires the salvation of all men. Piper
Not willing that any should perish. So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost. Calvin

222 posted on 05/07/2002 1:07:13 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: RnMomof7
My favorite verse is John 3:17.

It doesn't start with "...except..."!

492 posted on 05/08/2002 10:05:30 PM PDT by Cvengr
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