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To: P-Marlowe
So if you think God loves only the elect, then according to this author you are a Hypercalvinist. I have often quoted J. Vernon McGee as someone I agree with almost all the time. I have been told by members of the Calvinist clique here that J. Vernon McGee is not a "real" Calvinist, but some kind of Calmanian. However McGee is listed on several Calvinist sites as an example of a "famous" Calvinist along with Spurgeon and John MacArthur.

Well, I have never said that God only loves the elect. In fact, I have actually said the opposite:

However, you have the problem of explaining just exactly how God loves somebody whom He knowingly never gives enough grace to believe in a saving way given your fundamental beliefs.

And I have also, if you would understand my posts, stated that God also hates us when we are in Adam as the article points out. From my meditations from the 1st:

My objections to Calvinism are mostly in regard to the things I see are listed here as examples of Hyper-Calvinism. So what is it? Are you guys in agreement with the author here? Or is the author some kind of heretic like me?

Actually, I'm still digesting the article. Believe it or not, but much of it also applies to Arminianism as well. Go figure!

15 posted on 05/03/2002 9:08:25 AM PDT by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
Me and J. Vernon are/were (J. Vernon's with the Lord) moderate or if you prefer inconsistent Calvinists, in that we believe in Limited Attainment rather than Limited Atonement.

You may call us "No-L" Calvinists. :))

BTW, the term "hyper" usually means "more than me" and also "what I perceive to be extreme."

17 posted on 05/03/2002 9:19:57 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: CCWoody
However, you have the problem of explaining just exactly how God loves somebody whom He knowingly never gives enough grace to believe in a saving way given your fundamental beliefs.

I don't have that problem. You have that problem! I don't believe that God knowingly never gives enough grace to believe in a "saving way."

20 posted on 05/03/2002 9:34:53 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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