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Posted on 05/02/2002 10:27:43 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
So then he didn't miss it after all. Or are you pulling something out of context to trash one of the greatest missionaries, evangelists and statesmen of the last century?
Where did I say otherwise?
It looks like you missed my entire point. When Calvinists preach the Gospel, they know that God will save sinners. When Arminians preach the Gospel they hope that sinners will respond. That is because we know that the Gospel is the power of God, and that God will actually regenerate and convert as a result. You can only hope that the Gospel might persuade men, and that they will then make a decision.
In other words, why pray that God will save men when your energies would seem to be better spent on coming up with a more persuasive presentation. According to you, the decision is in the hands of man.
From your point of view, you don't know ahead of time who is going to 'accept Christ'. From our point of view, we can't tell which unregenerate sinners are actually elect. Therefore we both have to witness to everyone we can. It is not futile at all.
God could convert every one of the Elect by appearing to them the way He did to Paul. He doesn't choose to work that way, he chooses to use us. We cast the seeds, and the Spirit makes the ground fertile.
Well, in my case, God has called me to a Bible study, not to learn, but to witness to the LOST. Even the teacher in this class has noticed that ALL I talk about is the gospel; and we are going through Proverbs.
BTW, last week when somebody said they were unworthy, rather than tell them that the ARE unworthy, the teacher tried to build his self-esteem and got sidetracked on baptism.
A man does not go to the Grand Canyon to increase his self-esteem. A man does not go to God to increase his self-esteem. A man seeks God because he feels the burden of his sin and knows that he is truly unworthy. He does not stand at the edge of the Grand Canyon and watch the sun set and say "Now to what end shall I feel awe and wonder before this beauty." In the same way, a man does not say after finding God "Now to what end [increasing self-esteem] shall I feel awe and wonder before the Lord."
He simply feels awe and wonder and his worship is authentic. He truly reflects back to God the radiance of His worth (not his worth) and so he glorifies God. The man receives relief from his burden and God is glorified.
The Arminians on this forum have repeatedly made the tholeogically asinine and historically ridiculous charge that we Calvinists are anti-evangelistic. I believe Woody was demonstrating the hypocrisy inherent in those charges. (He is also concerned that some of the Arminians on this forum do not know the gospel in a saving way in the first place. This is the point I made in my most recent post to you.)
You have been using Jean Chauvin's post as an excuse to repeat the insinuation that we Calvinists are not interested in evangelism.
In other words, your obviously insincere questions in the last paragraph of your post to Jean amount to a decidedly lame way of attacking us, Corin. You did it anyway. For you, the virtue is in the attacking, not in the Truth.
In other words, you see nothing wrong with your indirect smearing approach concerning what we are doing on this forum. Sadly, you aren't willing to face the real problem. The real problem is that we are telling the Truth on the forum. The truth is, Arminianism is the Lie of Eden.
Your background is completely inadequate to see this. You have not been taught very well. You appear to be a traditionalist rather than a Sola Scriptura Christian. That puts you in spiritual danger.
So, yes, we Calvinists "attack." But we attack with the Truth. We warn you with the Truth. We point out that you have not been conspicuously teachable.
No not so.You will not see one Calvinist say Amen to a non Christian..or in any way imply that the person without Christ holds any truth.You will not see one Calvinist compromise the gospel of Christ to be "nice" or "thoughtful" or to preserve their feelings
We do not ever affirm error We do not seek the approval of man...only the approval of God (which is why BTW we also do not hit the abuse button)
Jer 16;19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and [things] wherein [there is] no profit.
20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they [are] no gods?
21 Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name [is] The LORD.
So by YOUR works THEY are saved? (lest any man should boast)
Pot. Kettle. Black.
You lost your authority to judge "attacks" by "virtue" of your recent exchange with Dr. Brian Kopp.
Then we can only conclude that the Calvinists believe truth is relative.
Ah, but it was a little too rough for the public forum.
Anyway, if you will not take Genesis 3 and John 8 seriously, then I will not take you seriously [grin again!].
Please ping me if you EVER get a response to this great question from any Arminian.
Pingless.
Waiting.
Still waiting...
What is the Gospel, Mom? You say it is preached with regularity by the Calvinists. Then Preach it!
Take a break from defending the Calvinist construct for a few minutes and write a few paragraphs tellilng all the Lurkers on this board how they can become "born again" and how they can be saved.
And how on earth can they become the Elect?
All truth is found in Christ..You simply prove the words of scripture
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Jhn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
No Corin it is not an easy thing to say to the unsaved..but "tolerance " of a false gospel to be loved or accepted is an abomination to God
It's OK, I don't respond to doc anymore.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.(Romans 5;15)
Salvation
- Is of God
#PS 3:8; Salvation [belongeth] unto the LORD: thy blessing [is] upon thy people. Selah.
- Is of the purpose of God
#2TI 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
- Is of the appointment of God
#1TH 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
- Is by Christ
EPH 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
- Is by Christ alone
AC 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
- Revealed in the gospel
#EPH 1:11-13; 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
2TI 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
- CHRIST, . The Captain of our salvation
#HEB 2:9-10 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Christ the Author of our Salvation
#HEB 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Christ Appointed for our salvation
#ISA 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
. . . Mighty to effect
HEB 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
. Came to effect
#MT 18:11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
. Died to effect #JOH 3:14,15; 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
GA 1:4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
- Is not by works #RO 11:6And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
EPH 2:9;Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2TI 1:9;Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
TIT 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
- Is of grace #EPH 2:5,8;
2:5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God
2TI 1:9;Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
TIT 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
- Is through faith in Christ
#MR 16:16;He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
AC 16:31;And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
RO 10:9;That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. EPH 2:8;For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
1PE 1:5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
- Reconciliation to God,
#RO 5:10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
- IS DELIVERANCE FROM . Sin #MT 1:21; 1JO 3:5
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