Palestinians Go House to House Killing Israelis

Fox News Website ^ | 4/27/02 | Fox News

[TheLurkerX]

JERUSALEM

[SJackson]

The text from the map you're posting, which concludes that a Palestinian gunman murdered Al Dura, and only a Palestinian gunman.

SUMMARY OF A PROFESSIONAL INVESTIGATION REGARDING THE KILLING OF A 12 YEAR OLD BOY AT NETZARIM JUNCTION AND POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS DERIVING FROM IT.

1. GENERAL

The killing was recorded by a Palestinian TV cameraman, on September 30, 2000, and broadcasted all over the world, blaming Israeli soldiers for doing it deliberately - by a professional sniper who saw exactly the target of his shooting. Since then, this scenario is used for unleashed anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish propaganda in the well known pattern of TSW - TV-Supported-Warfare. The undersigned initiated a professional investigation of the case, based on his long-time experience in complex systems analysis, military operations research and combat activities under fire (see shortened CV).

2. THE HARD FACTS

2.1 Confirmed by all sides: Israeli soldiers were confined to one outpost across the junction, at a distance of 110m from the victim and an angle of 30 degrees from the brick wall at the point where the boy and his father took shelter behind a concrete barrel. At this time, Palestinian outposts were dispersed all over the area - in front and behind the victim.

2.2 Confirmed by official representative of the Palestinian Authority on channel 2 of Israeli TV - Oct. 31, 2000: The boy was killed by one bullet which entered his body from the front and left the body from his back (therefore no bullet was found in the boy's body).

2.3 The cameraman returned to the scene of the event the day after, and confirmed: the barrel behind which the boy took shelter was of concrete (not of sheetmetal), therefore no rifle-bullet could penetrate it from side to side ("Haaretz" newspaper, Nov. 7, 2000).

2.4 The film taken by the Palestinian cameraman revealed on the wall the only hole of the bullet which penetrated the boy's body.

2.5 All the auxiliary facts, including recorded noises, only support the hereinafter conclusions.

3. CONCLUSIONS

3.1 The hole revealed on the brick wall behind the boy's body, after he fell on the pavement, is the only evidence of a bullet which penetrated his body, as declared by the PA representative.

3.2 The location of the killing-bullet-hole is well inside the space protected from Israeli outpost sniper by the concrete barrel.

3.3 The killing-bullet-hole could be caused only by a sniper facing the boy from the front (behind the bushes at the back of the cameraman), and the noise recorded by the cameraman before the boy was seen dead was of a very near-by weapon, with a sound quite different from the shooting heard before, from distanced outposts.

3.4 The armed outposts facing the boy from the front were manned only by Palestinians. Therefore, only they could have killed the boy. The same holds true for the bullets which wounded the boy's father: he was so deeply hidden in the corner between the wall and barrel - that only bullets shot from the front could hit him, and in no way could they be bullets from the Israeli outpost which was at an angle of 30 degrees from the wall. It was impossible even from an angle of 43 degrees.

3.5 This behavior of moslem militants is completely compatible with their old tradition of sacrificing their own people for a political purpose defined by their leader as the will of Allah. This makes them automatically holy martyrs - "Shahids" - gaining respect from all their society towards the martyr and his family. It is also known that suicide bombers caught before explosion by Israeli police confessed that they were promised and believed that after their martyr's death, they would become a "Shahid" who is entitled to be a honorable guest in paradise.

3.6 Also compatible with moslem militants' beliefs is that telling outright lies is legitimate - if they are used against an enemy. Such is the lie they produced and spread worldwide - to accuse Israeli soldiers as heartless killers of innocent children. The last example of such behavior was seen on worldwide TV networks, when Yasser Arafat himself demanded protection of his people from Israeli attacks, by repeating again and again the outrageous lie regarding who starts these attacks, when all the world could see how his people initiate the shooting and stonethrowing against Israeli civilians and soldiers, who react only in self-defence.

SUMMARY OF A PROFESSIONAL INVESTIGATION REGARDING THE KILLING OF A 12 YEAR OLD BOY AT NETZARIM JUNCTION AND POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS DERIVING FROM IT.

[Cachelot]

Can't keep up with your own sources and where you posted them?

Lying again. I told you there were diagrams at the Downside legacy, but didn't specify which. You point me to a geocities site, which doesn't even display, and claim that your stupid and mindless sentence about intersecting bullets has some significance.

Where did I point you to that geocities site, you mangy liar?

You know, you're outing yourself more than I thought possible. You ought to have heard from Resistance Records by now, but maybe even they won't take that swill ;).

[SJackson]

See 963, his site got it right.

[Cachelot]

Lol. Now it does show. Actually, that is one of the two diagrams I was thinking of. It shows conclusively that Israeli bullets couldn't reach targets behind the concrete barrel, which was what I said.

Thete is another diagram, showing the whole of Netzarim junction, however. It shows that there were even more concrete barrels, making it even more impossible for a bullet from the Israeli outpost to have reached the Duras.

Your mumbling about "intersection" is still meaningless, of course :))).

[Cachelot]

See 963, his site got it right.

Yep, got it after having actually gone to geocities and looked. The diagram proves exactly the opposite of what he's trying to claim. I think he's insane.

[Cachelot]

Actually, the resources I hinted at for him are here:

Downside Legacy

Looks like he went off on a tangent, though ;).

[Demidog]

For the next three years reservists with the rank of major can also be licensed to have personal weapons at home.

Good grief. Are you dense? Also, roughly 50% of all gun licenses are declined according to the numbers cited in your earlier excerpt.

[Demidog]

It shows conclusively that Israeli bullets couldn't reach targets behind the concrete barrel, which was what I said.

No it doesn't. The entire purpose of the IDF tests was to show that a bullet hole would look completely different if hitting the wall at that angle. It merely shows the angle of the IDF trajectory. It also shows interestingly enough that the claimed trajectory of the so-called martyr shooter intersects with the IDF trajectory as I stated.

Furthermore, this diagram is accessible from the link you provided. It is two clicks away within links from that source.

[veronica]

No I am afraid you are the dense one. NOT ONLY reservists can have guns at home, or otherwise. As the articles show. Your stupid games are so tiresome. It's just not possible you act like this in the real world. They'd come for you with the white jacket. The one with the funny sleeves.

[veronica]

AND you have not posted the 'reports' about the IDF 'bulldozing dwellings with Palestinian children in them'. Run along now and gather your 'facts.'

[Cachelot]

Furthermore, this diagram is accessible from the link you provided. It is two clicks away within links from that source.

Quite possibly. It was not the one I was talking about, though.

Your "intersection theory" is meaningless. The palestinian shooter is not at any of the plotted-in palestinian shooter points - we have been through this ad nauseam. The shooter was close to the cameraman, which is why the filmclip looks exactly like the cameraman were doing the shooting.

[anapikoros]

Some of those didn't even issue conclusions.

Care to be more specific. Or are you just repeating hogwash which you read somewhere.?

Wouldn't you agree that the committees that refused to issue a conclusion should be thown out as invalid?

Which committee refused? Committees work under "terms of reference" set up by the appointers of such committee - they may for instance be fact-finding committees that don't have to issue a conclusion because the facts speak for themselves.

[anapikoros]

Because the Liberty's only defensive weapons were two fifty caliber machine guns mounted fore and aft.

Read what I said - the IDF thought the explosions were from shelling offshore and sent PT boats to investigate. That's what triggered the incident. The PT boats came across a ship in a hot war zone and from a very long distance identified it as Egyptian. Because it was so far away they didn't believe they could catch up to her so they called for air support. It was irrelevant as to whether it was the source of the offshore shelling - it was an enemy ship.

If IDF forces approached the ship (which had an American flag plainly visible and had been flown by several times throughout the day by the Israeli air force [some of the pilots waving to crew members]) and thought it was capable of firing upon the shore, then they would have to be not only acting in error by attacking, but incredibly stupid as well.

Any statement that starts with the word "if" is not usually worth answering. But seeing as you include a number of errors of fact in your statement I will.

The flag issue has been well debated. Yes a flag was flown by the Liberty but:

Throughout the whole incident the IDF did not associate the ship with the Liberty which had been last identified several hours previously. Ships don't stay in the same location in a hot war zone. So the overflights earlier in the day are irrelevent.

The IDF jets were given a tagret to attack and did so on the first pass. At the time, the Liberty was moving at 5 knots and there was little or any breeze to make the flag stand out. The lanyards were shot away and the flag dropped to the deck. The Captain ordered an ensign to be hoisted.

Gun camera pics show that the flag was not standing out and that smoke from stacks was going straight up.

By the time the PT boats got close enough to the Liberty there was so much fire and smoke from the air attack that no flag could be able to be distinguished until it was to late.

Please don't keep coming back with unsourced statements and displaying your ignorance of the facts.

[anapikoros]

Eyewitness account? - did you read his article. He doesn't say that he saw the actual incident.

[Demidog]

The shooter was close to the cameraman, which is why the filmclip looks exactly like the cameraman were doing the shooting.

Yes but if we are to assume that the bullet holes which startled Al Dula's father were from that shooter it basically rules out the exit wound bullet (the hole was visibly smaller) and makes it impossible for the camerman shooter to have put a bullet in the front of the kid exiting the back. He was facing at right angles to the camera man shooter.

[Demidog]

Read what I said - the IDF thought the explosions were from shelling offshore and sent PT boats to investigate.

Neat timing. Then you say this: By the time the PT boats got close enough to the Liberty there was so much fire and smoke from the air attack that no flag could be able to be distinguished until it was to late.

So are you saying that the PT boats sent to investigate didn't reach the ship until after the attack had already started? Why would Israeli air force begin an attack before it had any intel about the ship? Doesn't that seem grossly incompetent?

Like I said earlier, if the Air Force flew in and attacked without making note that the liberty had no guns to even initiate an attack on the shore, then the pilots were stupid. But we know that IDF and the Israeli Air Force are agruably the best trained in the world. Some opine even better trained then the American Air Force and Marines. Your not thinking this thing through. None of it makes any sense unless the attack was deliberate.

[Demidog]

The palestinian shooter is not at any of the plotted-in palestinian shooter points

This is B.S. In the diagram I showed, the shooter is suggested to be directly across from Al Dura near the cameraman. Thus the trajectory which intersects the IDF sniper's trajectory.

[Cachelot]

This is B.S. In the diagram I showed

Lol. Spin until you lift from the ground, doggie. It still doesnt make your "intersection" anything but gibberish :)).